[tec] How to get refits to occur more reguarly

[Ducimus]

So ive been mulling over that early war conning tower. I keep waffeling on it. I like authentic, but it just doesnt have that classic gato silloutte. But the lack of a sense of progression on the conning towers ate at me, so i started looking at things more closely.

The answer it seems, after running some tests this morning, was in plain sight for all to see.

The answer is this little line called:
UnitPartInterval=

One example of its location is:
sh4\Data\UPCData\UPCUnitsData\UnitParts1Gato.upc

Ill take some snippets now, and note the date

[UnitPart 1]
ID= GatoConningEarlyWar
Type= GatoConningTower
NameDisplayable= Start of war Conning Tower
UnitPartInterval=NULL, 1942-12-01
ExternalLinkName3D= data/objects/Conning_Gato_01
HullTextureNameOverride=data/Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato_T01.tga
HullLightmapTextureNameOverride=data/Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato_O01.tga
HullNormalmapTextureNameOverride= NULL
MenuSilhouetteTextureNameOverride= Gato_Class_01.tga

[UnitPart 2]
ID= GatoConningMedWar
Type= GatoConningTower
NameDisplayable= The aft bridge deck fairwater was removed to reduce silhouette
UnitPartInterval=1942-06-01, 1944-12-01
ExternalLinkName3D= data/objects/Conning_Gato_02
HullTextureNameOverride=data/Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato_T01.tga
HullLightmapTextureNameOverride=data/Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato_O01.tga
HullNormalmapTextureNameOverride= NULL
MenuSilhouetteTextureNameOverride= Gato_Class_02.tga

The gist here is the 2nd date, is what we'd call at my work, "end of life'ing the product". It is an exit date.

Note that the exit date for the "bathtub" isnt until, 1 day shy of 1943.

The entry date for the 2nd cut downtower is in the middle of 1942, and the exit day 1 month shy of 1945!!!

So theres an obvious overlap, which is ok. It provides randomness in when you get the upgrades. My (and im assuming everyone elses problem) is that its TOO random, and not consistant enough, with some users complaining about having the same tower for most of the war. Looking at the exit dates of the towers, its entirely possible since most of them are forced out fairly late.



The proof of the pudding:

I made a test modlet using the Tambor with the following UnitPartInterval dates with all 4 of the towers i have going for the Tambor in TMO.

Early war: NULL, 1941-12-09
Mid war: 1941-12-10, 1942-06-06
Late war: 1942-06-07, 1943-06-06
Elite: 1943-06-07, NULL



I then scripted the Tambor out of Pearl harbor to have only one mission avaialble, a test mission that awards 1,000 renown for reaching an area just out side of pearl harbor. SO i could zip back and forth on simulated patrol runs. I have the days in port set to about 30 days in TMO.

My results were....CONSISTANT, which is why i'm making this post.

Starting on 8Dec 41, (departing around 9dec41) and docking the same day, the game advanced me to 15Jan42 for the next patrol. I then started and ended it the same day, each time i docked I recieved the midwar tower on 16 Jan 42. I did this 3 times, and each time it was the same result with the same dates.


I then did a similar test with the midwar tower, and consistantly recieved the later war tower in a similar manner.

Looking at the dates i used:
Early war: NULL, 1941-12-09 - Mid war: 1941-12-10, 1942-06-06

My hypothises is that two conning towers share the same month, and the game looks less at the day, and more at the month. Looking at the dates i recieved the upgrades (01/42 and 07/42) the game gave me the wanted tower the instant the two upgrades didnt share the same month, with the previous tower, effectively "end of lifed".


Im pretty excited about this, because now it looks like we can force the upgrade system to behave a little more consistantly.


EDIT:
After more testing, i can confirm something else.

YOUR PERFORMANCE IS ALSO A FACTOR if you get a refit or not.

After numberous test runs it looks as though that you have to have AT LEAST ONE GOOD PATROL.

What does the game classify as a good patrol?

That is in this file:
\sh4\Data\Cfg\UPC.cfg

In specific in this file, the very first block of data.

[MissionManager]
RenownValuesUS=-400,-100,100,800,1600,2500
RenownValuesGE=-400,-100,100,1000,2000,3500

You can adjust this if you want, but.. by default, you must have run at least one patrol where your earned renown has exceeded the number in bold, in this case, 800 renown. If you never have a patrol where your earned renown exceeds this number, you will NEVER see a refit. In one test, i set the earned renown per test run at 750, and did 10 simulated patrols. wasnt fired, but not one medal, not one refit.

The instant i set the renown value to a value greater then 800 - or, i lowered this value in the upc.cfg file, i was awarded a refit.


So in summary, the towers have to have an exit date to force the game to choose a new one, AND, you have to have at least one good patrol under your belt, as defined by the UPC.cfg file.

------------












As an aside, for TM,

I have been doing a bit of research on wartime modifications, primarly because i keep waffeling on that early war conning tower everyone seems to dislike. (i sit on the fence, i like authentic, but its just not the classic gato silloutte either, so i cant make up my mind)

In general, the paint and conning tower match is wrong. By default, when you get the 2nd AA platform, it changes to MS/32 paint.

This wasn't generally added tell 1944 at the earliest.

For proof of this, visit here:
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/submarines.htm

Look at the gato section, and look at the USS gato in particlar:
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/gato_class.htm

In 1943, she had an MS/9 paint job.

Ok now look at the USS gato here:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08212a.htm

If you look at her 1943 refit pictures, it is clearly an MS/9 paintjob - compare it to some of the pictures later in the war.

So, for the majority of the war, US fleet boats were in fact, black.

What i intended to do is clone the 3rd "late war" tower to create a 4th version for all boats. Change the dat in the 3rd tower to the black texture, and then advance the 4th tower in timeline to represent the ms/32 change over.

Tower configurations:
Early war - Ms/9
Mid war - MS/9
Late war (first version of 2nd AA plat form) - MS/9
"Elite" ( 2nd version of AA platform with further cutback on super structure) MS/32.

I think the "late war" MS/9 version is a misnomer. The "elite" version is probably the true "late war".

[M. Sarsfield]

Great homework! I like what you have found and I think it should be done.

[Ducimus]

Oh yea, one thing i forgot to mention, is that in my test, i made the unitpart intervals in the submarines upc file the same as the unitpart.upc file


Early war: NULL, 1941-12-09
Mid war: 1941-12-10, 1942-06-06
Late war: 1942-06-07, 1943-06-06
Elite: 1943-06-07, NULL
-----------

IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1941-12-09, TamborConningEarlyWar
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault2= 1941-12-10, 1942-06-06, TamborConningMedWar
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault3= 1942-06-07, 1943-06-06, TamborConningLateWar
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault4= 1943-06-07, NULL, TamborConningElite

I didn't have any overlaying dates at all.

[M. Sarsfield]

So, the MS/32 paint jobs will be available in mid-1943. That explains why I never saw any black Batfish photos. She always had the late war scheme.

[Ducimus]

No those are just... dates i chose out of the hat for testing purposes.

Here is where im on the fence though..... make the upgrade dates historic, or a couple months prior to the "circa" date?

My feeling is lll proabably make MS/32 avialable in 44.


Overall looking at the dates of refits, if you do alot of clicking around navsource, one thing i noticed is that the older boats seemed to get a refit first. I think i noticed a salmon class getting its 2nd AA platform around 3/43.

I may take that for instance, and make it 1/43, with the MS/32 being at 1/44

Here again im on another fence.. make this apply to all boats, or just the earlier ones?
The fly in the ointment in that regard is the Gato. I think that alhough they were newer models, they had to wait their turn for a refit, assuming my observation about older boats being the first in line is correct.

[M. Sarsfield]

Now that I've looked at the camo website a little closer, it looks like a lot of the Balao boats were painted in the MS/9 scheme out of the boat yard, too. Even as late as 1944 USS Becuna (SS-319) had the MS/9. Their new paint jobs being later in the war (1944) matches up with your idea that earlier boats had refit priority, which made sense. They needed more attention due to use and age - especially with equipment upgrades.

[JREX53]

Ducimus,

Thanks for passing on you knowledge of Modding.
It helps us Unmodders think of how the modding process goes.

[thasaint]

sounds good, well into '43 in a tambor n getting tired of the bathtub, it was fine for a couple of years but i'd like an upgrade PLEASE! hehe

i vote for historic upgrade dates

[DrBeast]

Saving this page for future reference. Great finding once more, Ducimus!

[Ducimus]

After more testing, i can confirm something else.

YOUR PERFORMANCE IS ALSO A FACTOR if you get a refit or not.

After numberous test runs it looks as though that you have to have AT LEAST ONE GOOD PATROL.

What does the game classify as a good patrol?

That is in this file:
\sh4\Data\Cfg\UPC.cfg

In specific in this file, the very first block of data.

[MissionManager]
RenownValuesUS=-400,-100,100,800,1600,2500
RenownValuesGE=-400,-100,100,1000,2000,3500

You can adjust this if you want, but.. by default, you must have run at least one patrol where your earned renown has exceeded the number in bold, in this case, 800 renown. If you never have a patrol where your earned renown exceeds this number, you will NEVER see a refit. In one test, i set the earned renown per test run at 750, and did 10 simulated patrols. wasnt fired, but not one medal, not one refit.

The instant i set the renown value to a value greater then 800 - or, i lowered this value in the upc.cfg file, i was awarded a refit.


So in summary, the towers have to have an exit date to force the game to choose a new one, AND, you have to have at least one good patrol under your belt, as defined by the UPC.cfg file.

[DrBeast]

Was there a corresponding file in 1.4?

[Ducimus]

Originally Posted by DrBeast

Was there a corresponding file in 1.4?

Ain't none. new in 1.5 i beleive.

[DrBeast]

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Ain't none. new in 1.5 i beleive.

Hmm...and odds are if there's something similar, it might be "dormant". Lots of files in Cfg were just ported over from SH3 but not used by SH4, if memory serves. Cheers mate!