US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner;

That won't move any topic forward either and I feel when someone continuously uses this tactic - with the sole purpose of FIGHTING instead of discussing - then sorry, it should be considered inflammatory, derailing and since it's loaded with attacks on everyone else, insulting, and that the mod tram should act.

that is really, as they say, the pot calling the kettle black.You want to have an honest debate? Why don't you start. I still have not seen one factual argument, all I see are posts of vague fears based on what you are convinced Trump will do.

...and what exactly is being served by posters from the other side continuously hurling personal insults at POTUS other than trying to provoke Trump supporters? That is borderline trolling IMHO.

If Yubba is banned, there are many other members who are borderline skating on the rules who should be banned as well.

[Bilge_Rat]

interesting analysis, in the NY Times no less, of the legality of Trump's travel ban.

Bottom line: the chances it will be ruled unconstitutional/illegal are slim.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/05/u...T.nav=top-news

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

that is really, as they say, the pot calling the kettle black.You want to have an honest debate? Why don't you start. I still have not seen one factual argument, all I see are posts of vague fears based on what you are convinced Trump will do.

Wow, what a blatant lie.
Ok, quote me. Quote me where I made claims what trump WILL do. I never did any such thing. I said I hate him for who he is and what he DID yes, but that's something completely different - and justified/based on facts.

Again, quote me.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Did you follow what he said during the elections, and since he is in office?
If this isn't enough to know he should not be president I don't know what is.
For me, it has been enough long before November.

here you go, you don't like him, but can't state why.

[Bilge_Rat]

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Yes you observed that right.
I don't even care about trump, he is but a worthless oxygen thief to me and I am convinced this planet would be a better one without him, or his kind.

I care more about those who indeed not only accept this behavior, but even support it, acknowledge it by even raising him to power, instead of remembering why integrity, dignity and respect is of utmost value and importance for the office of the POTUS. No, they rather listened to right wing propaganda, luring them the easy way creating an enemy that shouldn't be one ("the Democrats "). I find it appalling and spineless. If I would vote a person like trump to power, I would feel ashamed for the rest if my life, because while I carefully mind not dropping an f bomb or be a "good Christian", I still betrayed all these values I claimed to hold dear and voted a scumbag into this office that once was so... Kinda holy.

/Rant

And yes, the Democrats completely defeated themselves, no doubt here. Hillary was the worst choice they could have made...

here you go redux, insults not only against Trump, again not stating why, but also insulting anyone who voted for him.

Again, you want an honest debate? why don't you take the first step instead of asking that members you do not agree with be banned.

[Onkel Neal]

Thank you. I was going to shape a reply but you did it better.

[Catfish]

Immigration ban on countries where no terrorist came from, but keeping those who have sent lots, and finance and plan further attacks? Makes not much sense to me.
Ah money you say, this is of course a reason, and probably the real one. Economical ties alright, but please do not try to sell this to us as protecting US citizens.

B.t.w. does banning countries make sense? Every terrorist can get a passport from Sweden or Australia, and immigrate everywhere.

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

B.t.w. does banning countries make sense? Every terrorist can get a passport from Sweden or Australia, and immigrate everywhere.

I find it difficult to believe that "every terrorist can get a passport from countries like Sweden or Australia". Has this ever happened? If so is it (still) particularly difficult to properly vet people coming from those countries like it is the ones on the temporary ban list?

[Skybird]

http://www.usnews.com/news/the-repor...ous?src=usn_tw

I get some prominent support for my earlier claim that Trump is suffering from a narcissistic psychopathological symptomatology. My famous colleague calls it malignant narcissism instead.

What is malignant narcisiism, in differentiation to the DSM-IV.known diagnostical category of a narcissistic personality disorder? - HERE.

Gartner obviously has perceived the same symptoms and puts the same diagnosis like I did. which in Trump's case is not difficult, since narcissists do not wish to hide themselves and their manipulation of others, which can be quite different to an old-schooled classical psychopath, who prefers to manipulate people ice-cold in any manner he sees suitiable for his desires and drives - on display if that is benefittable for his cause, in the hiding if that serves his intentions better. Narcissists however do want to shine, and want to let everybody know, and want to actively make others beleive what fantastic god-like creatures they are.

What this means? Trump is ill-natured, and there is no cure. He will not grow with the office, because he cannot. He is ill.

Ill - but dangerous. Never think an ill patient cannot be dangerous, is excused from being labelled as dangerous.

If you think I am only about taking cheap shots at Trump, read some of my earlier postings about him from the past months. This diagnosis is primarily of clinical interest for me. I never hid my antipathy towards Trump, but also said he should be given the benefit of doubt. But the many hollow, mostly pointless decrees he is ripple-firing, are revealing. I do not need the full 100 days to form up my opinion.

Whatever good maybe comes from him, is not intentional, and just a side-effect he doe snto care for. For example that his rudeness gives the Europeans a wake-up call that is much needed.

Trump lives in his own fantasy Trumpoverse, and this I mean not metaphorically, but literally. And that is what makes him immune to input from reality, and very dangerous.

He may be ill, but he is dangerous. And all this I say as a former psychologist and from a clinical perspective.

Politics and certain businesses seem to attract such patients often.

BTW, for narcissism personality disorder as well as "malignant narcissim", there is no cure and no known therapy. Lock the latter away so that the public is safe from them. Thats all you can do.

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

here you go, you don't like him, but can't state why.

Err, no. I can state reasons, but I didn't want to in that particular post, no.
Can =/= want to - learn the difference.

And since I did state reasons before, I did not see any reason to state them again. Little did I know that Trump critics have to attach a complete and approved list of reasons why they despise trump. Sorry?
Neal, quick, update the rules!

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

here you go redux, insults not only against Trump, again not stating why, but also insulting anyone who voted for him.

Again, you want an honest debate? why don't you take the first step instead of asking that members you do not agree with be banned.

I did not ask for anyone getting banned.
Stop lying. Please?

I stated why and named plenty examples in the past months(!) as to why I despise trump.
Of course, coincidentally, you picked a post where I did not name any reasons and deliberately skipped a more recent post where I did.

What you're trying here is obvious - and pathetic.

Here's the most recent post where I named just a few reasons out of my head.
Now of course, none of these will be valid in any trump-fans book, but fortunately, I do not need you, or anyone, to approve of my reasons to despise your president.

Originally Posted by Nippelspanner

Steve, one last time: He DID do enough already. Saying terrible things, from making false claims purposely, insulting other politicians due to their physical appearance, insulting EVERY SINGLE POW, making the wildest and most absurd racial slurs or talking about his daughter as if he wants to bed her - that is DOING something in my book and I'm sorry you, and others, don't give a damn and give this worthless scum a pass because "muh let's see!".

[Catfish]

I mean of course faked passports, with a bit of money you can get everything i'm sure. In Germany there are new ones with chips for nfc and whatnot in it, but you could also fake that.

There is no guarantee, you can only minimise illegal entries by thoroughly vetting everyone, and that is plain not possible with the numbers. Banning countries.. if you were a terrorist or a secret service member from, say, Turkey. Would you use your real passport, or a turkish, or a syrian one?
You would of course either fake another person from whom this passport happens to be, or use an entirely faked one, from a neutral or befriended country.

But i am still not convinced that banning countries is even legal, apart from them being the wrong ones to ban. Maybe during emergency laws, "condition red" or however the "threat level" was named, or under martial law. Are you at war, officially? What about the Geneva convention? What about all other international treaties the US has signed?
True, they have tried to circumvent ot leave this already in the Bush years, to make sueing of e.g. CIA staff impossible, legalise torture under certain conditions, and evade this time-consuming transport of detainees to countries where torture is "allowed", or at least does not take place on american soil.

Up to a point all this is even understandable, or comprehensible. Whatever, do not insult other countries by glossing over all that stuff. Call a spade a spade and people will not criticise you.

Trump's motto of "America First" indicates "America alone".

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

But i am still not convinced that banning countries is even legal

How could it not be? How could a nation not have the right to suspend immigration?

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by August

How could it not be? How could a nation not have the right to suspend immigration?

I would think every country can control immigration. There is nothing in writing and agreed upon by the world that states otherwise.

[AVGWarhawk]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Trump's motto of "America First" indicates "America alone".

And it may just have to be that way for a time. The world police sounds great on the surface and it is until the bill is received.

[Catfish]

So you want to get back to before 1965, and skip the 1965 Immigration and Nationality Act?

edit
Like in England, you already have enough means to control immigration, you do not even need new laws or bans. Just use what you have. All this populistic chatter of "sovereignty and being able to close the borders" is just there to create fear and threats, and is absolutely unnecessary. The tools are already there, use them.