US Politics Thread 2016-2020 - Page 702

mapuc · 09-09-20, 02:57 PM

While I have mentioned I hope Trump would win because...

I also hope he will loose.

I have real fear. that some(one) will do more than only use words in their hatred towards Trump if he wins.

Can't remember which one of you who wrote something with

He must be stopped at any cost

And this is my deepest fear that some(one) with suicide thoughts take action.

If he wins a second term it will not be one attempt but more..

The Media has manage to build up a hatred towards Trump
Yes he may have some guilt himself.

Markus

u crank · 09-09-20, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Armistead

What's true or not, the Dems and Trump's enemies are doing a great job politically of pushing off the ambush before the election, such as things that happened a few years ago come out now right before the election, a mass of people are releasing their anti Trump books, Woodward releasing his stuff...It's got Trump on a big defensive and of course Trump is attacking back with his usual used car sales approach. The Trump team needs to get on it with their ambush, sure they can find some unnamed sources.

The problem for the left wing MSM is they miss Bush jr and Mitt Romney. When they lied about those guys they just went into the fetal position and cried uncle. Trump, the guy from Queens, bangs on the hood of the car and yells " Hey I'm walking here!!".

Skybird · 09-09-20, 03:08 PM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54094559

How noble!

Skybird · 09-09-20, 03:21 PM

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/st...90941110341632

Those numbers should make it obvious.

This election system is fraudulent and the fraudster is not a party, or a candidate, but the system itself. Plain and simple. It would only be kind of neutral if the electorate college per state would represent exactly the share of the voters of that state compared to the total national population. But that is not the case. And so you have the absurd situation that a candidate can loose the public vote by millions - and still win the presidency.

In more cvilised parts of the world this simpyl is called election fraud. Nothing else. I know the reasoning behind the design, and the excuses and arguments made. I have fully understood it. And I call it BS. I do not buy it, not one bit of it. Its bull.

Elections are majority decisions. If they are not, they make no sense anymore. Each vote must have the same weight. But it does not have the same weight, its weight varies from state to state. That is absurd. If the alternative is not liked, that is that state being of smaller economic influence still havign voters with the wirght of one vote, then there is only one logical consequence: you should not have a state union then and a national government ruling over 50 states. It maybe simply is too big.

This dilemma is one of the main reasons I am so principally against the EU and the idea of a United States of Europe. That would be way over half a billion people, much more than the US population.

----------

German system has its flaws, too, namely the problem with the "Überhangmandat". This leads to the absurd situation that Germany with its 84 million total population has the second biggest parliament on the whole planet. Only the People's Congress in China is bigger. And they have 1400 million total population.

JU_88 · 09-09-20, 03:30 PM

The mail in voting system in the U.S is completley broken from what I understand / have heard.

Buddahaid · 09-09-20, 03:42 PM

Sky, it's not fraudulent, it's that way by design and the reasons explained to you over and over. You not liking it doesn't mean it's fraudulent.

Catfish · 09-09-20, 04:10 PM

So it's fraudulent by design?

Reminds me of the middle ages and the Churfuersten, electing the "Kaiser".
The people of "nobility" allowed to vote and deciding the outcome have changed to people with the most money, but apart from that ..

Astonishingly the European laws are in a way similar as in the US, a smaller country like Belgium has the same say and voting power as e.g. France - at least theoretically. All partaking conutries have the same right and own sovereignty.
Of course here it is countries, not counties within one country or nation.
This was introduced so that bigger countries do not automatically rule over smaller ones.

Buddahaid · 09-09-20, 04:25 PM

You both keep forgetting the country is a republic.

Skybird · 09-09-20, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddahaid

Sky, it's not fraudulent, it's that way by design and the reasons explained to you over and over. You not liking it doesn't mean it's fraudulent.

It is. I am not the first saying that. By a huge timespan I am not. The complication with the electorate college is excused with "wanting to balance" states against each other that have different economic weight and power. But it leads to voter'S votes in some states having different weights for the national election outcome, for the presidential election that is. A system that calls for general elections but has voters having votes of different weight, is fraudulent. It is that because it wants to bypass the so-called popular vote, "correct" its outcome. It gives excuses for doing so, and I buy none of those excuses. I never did. Its fraudulent by design, the betrayal of the public vote is wanted. Its not a mishap, its the very intention and point of having it.

Its the same with gerrymandering, which seems to be a very great problem in the US, much bigger than in any other western country where I read of it. Gerrymandering is a rule to commit fraud - and not being called out over it, getting away with it. I cheats the voters.

If I sit in an assembly, lets say the yearly assembly of property owners, and we there have a rule of one owner=one vote, and we must decide something and come to counting the Yes and No and then somebody tells me: oh, you live on the right side of the house, your vote sorry has only 75% counting value, and the people under the roof have 1.5 times the counting value of a single vote, then I would tell them to piss off and would sue them all. And I would win, at every court over here. Becasue a rule of voter's votes being of different weight, is not valid.

Its depressing that one even must explain this. Its the very basis of majority votes. And yes, the majority is that side that should win a majority vote, and the minority looses it. Thats the very purpose of havign a majority vote. The purpose is not to doctor the unwanted results so to turn a defeat into a win and having a minority commanding a majority.

Its an absurd system. Maybe the idea behind it long time ago was noble or idealistic, though i somewhat doubt it, the hunger for power is as old as politics. But the result of this system, the outcome, is absurd. Absurd, absurd, absurd.

vienna · 09-09-20, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u crank

"I'm just a soul whose intentions are good
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood"

What are you trying to say...?...

<O>

u crank · 09-09-20, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vienna

What are you trying to say...?...

I'm not trying to saying anything ... I'm singing it.

August · 09-09-20, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Its an absurd system.

So absurd that it's outlasted anything your country has been able to achieve by centuries.

Buddahaid · 09-09-20, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

Its depressing that one even must explain this. Its the very basis of majority votes. And yes, the majority is that side that should win a majority vote, and the minority looses it. Thats the very purpose of havign a majority vote. The purpose is not to doctor the unwanted results so to turn a defeat into a win and having a minority commanding a majority.

You also forget it is a large country and what's good for SF isn't always good for the people in Topeka. The individual states can address their local political climate, and act accordingly, but the whole as a nation needs to reflect the whole, not just the fat guy on the other side of the teeter totter. The system works despite it's flaws.

Think of it like this. You don't like loud music, and your neighbors don't either, but the city votes to have loud music played outdoors all day long so you can't enjoy being outdoors because there is loud music always being played. I guess that's just too bad for you because the majority of the people in the city do like loud music and insist it gets played everywhere.

skidman · 09-10-20, 01:42 AM

If I was a texan, I wouldn't even bother to register. In a Winner-takes-all state with a overwhelming GOP majority my vote will never count. An election? No, a joke.

Skybird · 09-10-20, 03:49 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54096520

Who would have thought that!

09-09-20, 03:08 PM	#10518
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,714 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54094559 How noble! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

09-09-20, 03:21 PM	#10519
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,714 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/st...90941110341632 Those numbers should make it obvious. This election system is fraudulent and the fraudster is not a party, or a candidate, but the system itself. Plain and simple. It would only be kind of neutral if the electorate college per state would represent exactly the share of the voters of that state compared to the total national population. But that is not the case. And so you have the absurd situation that a candidate can loose the public vote by millions - and still win the presidency. In more cvilised parts of the world this simpyl is called election fraud. Nothing else. I know the reasoning behind the design, and the excuses and arguments made. I have fully understood it. And I call it BS. I do not buy it, not one bit of it. Its bull. Elections are majority decisions. If they are not, they make no sense anymore. Each vote must have the same weight. But it does not have the same weight, its weight varies from state to state. That is absurd. If the alternative is not liked, that is that state being of smaller economic influence still havign voters with the wirght of one vote, then there is only one logical consequence: you should not have a state union then and a national government ruling over 50 states. It maybe simply is too big. This dilemma is one of the main reasons I am so principally against the EU and the idea of a United States of Europe. That would be way over half a billion people, much more than the US population. ---------- German system has its flaws, too, namely the problem with the "Überhangmandat". This leads to the absurd situation that Germany with its 84 million total population has the second biggest parliament on the whole planet. Only the People's Congress in China is bigger. And they have 1400 million total population. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 09-09-20 at 03:31 PM.

09-09-20, 03:42 PM	#10521
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,332 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	Sky, it's not fraudulent, it's that way by design and the reasons explained to you over and over. You not liking it doesn't mean it's fraudulent. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

09-09-20, 04:10 PM	#10522
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,801 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	So it's fraudulent by design? Reminds me of the middle ages and the Churfuersten, electing the "Kaiser". The people of "nobility" allowed to vote and deciding the outcome have changed to people with the most money, but apart from that .. Astonishingly the European laws are in a way similar as in the US, a smaller country like Belgium has the same say and voting power as e.g. France - at least theoretically. All partaking conutries have the same right and own sovereignty. Of course here it is countries, not counties within one country or nation. This was introduced so that bigger countries do not automatically rule over smaller ones. __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 09-09-20 at 04:29 PM.*

09-09-20, 04:25 PM	#10523
Buddahaid Shark above Space Chicken Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 9,332 Downloads: 162 Uploads: 0	You both keep forgetting the country is a republic. __________________ "However vast the darkness, we must provide our own light." Stanley Kubrick "Tomorrow belongs to those who can hear it coming." David Bowie

09-09-20, 02:57 PM	#10516
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,559 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	While I have mentioned I hope Trump would win because... I also hope he will loose. I have real fear. that some(one) will do more than only use words in their hatred towards Trump if he wins. Can't remember which one of you who wrote something with He must be stopped at any cost And this is my deepest fear that some(one) with suicide thoughts take action. If he wins a second term it will not be one attempt but more.. The Media has manage to build up a hatred towards Trump Yes he may have some guilt himself. Markus

09-09-20, 03:30 PM	#10520
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,813 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	The mail in voting system in the U.S is completley broken from what I understand / have heard.

09-10-20, 01:42 AM	#10529
skidman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Near the Dutch mountains Posts: 1,147 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	If I was a texan, I wouldn't even bother to register. In a Winner-takes-all state with a overwhelming GOP majority my vote will never count. An election? No, a joke. __________________ "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.” (Douglas Adams)

09-10-20, 03:49 AM	#10530
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,714 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-54096520 Who would have thought that! __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.