US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[August]

Another interesting article. Republicans are at a crossroads.

Gingrich: Surrender or fight - our country is at stake


By Newt Gingrich Published May 18, 2017 Fox News


Republicans, in particular the Trump administration, are approaching a historic decision that will shape America for generations to come.


The endless hostility of the Left, exemplified by violent fascists on college campuses, thugs in the streets, determined disrupters at town hall meetings, and the dishonest elite media are all part of their efforts to defeat the reforms and changes that President Trump was elected to implement.
The constant, anonymous leaks from disgruntled federal bureaucrats aim to provide ammunition for the propaganda news media to press the attack.
The Left’s dance of destruction is stunningly choreographed.
I have been overseas for the last three days, and it has been sickening to see so many foreigners terrified because they unknowingly believe the news media’s false reports and vicious attacks. The only version of President Trump they know is the one portrayed in the 24-hour cesspool of CNN and the daily acrimony of the New York Times. Sadly, our own nation’s news media is doing more to undermine America's image than Al Jazeera or Pravda combined.
As the media continues to serve as a megaphone for the nameless federal employees who have axes to grind, remember that 95 percent of 2016 campaign donations from federal employees went to Hillary Clinton. At the State Department, 99 percent of employees who gave supported Clinton, and that figure is 97 percent at the Department of Justice.
Congressional Republicans are rapidly approaching a crossroads. Some have already surrendered by giving up on town hall meetings. Others have accepted the news media's false narrative as the truth. Republicans must decide if they are going to fight for what they believe in or retreat to the tenuous safety of the beltway bubble.
The Trump White House faces an even greater challenge. Trying to reason with, placate, or even respond to the Washington news media is a losing game. Each day, the opposition media is fiercely committed to either magnifying a supposed problem or inventing a new one.
We are today in a one-sided cultural civil war. The Left has picked the battlefield and defined the terms of engagement. If conservatives respond to this aggressive, sometimes violent hostility from the Left with confusion, uncertainty, and appeasement, we are guaranteed to lose the struggle to drain the swamp and reform Washington.
Further, surrendering will destroy America as we know it. Far from making America great again, we will have yielded our country to left-wing thugs, liars, and intimidators.
Those of us who truly want to make America great again have one choice: Fight. Our situation is similar to President Lincoln’s in 1861. He had to make the choice between fighting until he won or giving up on the idea of the United States. Once again, our country is at stake.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/...-at-stake.html

[Von Due]

Originally Posted by August

[...]given that nobody knows what information was allegedly shared?

Originally Posted by August

Well I have the public testimony of several people who were actually there to hear what was said.

How does this add up?

[August]

Originally Posted by Von Due

How does this add up?

Nobody who wasn't there could possibly know what was shared. Several people who actually were there and in a position to know what is sensitive and what is not have publicly stated that nothing was shared which wasn't already public information. That's how.

[August]

Another illuminating article:

Special Counsel Means Congress Must Start Legislating


By Roger L Simon May 17, 2017


It's not earth-shattering news that Congress has been, on balance, the least respected branch of government for the last several decades. Reason: They don't do their job. They bloviate, they posture, they investigate, they hold hearings, they appear on cable news, they raise funds from wealthy constituents and go on junkets, they threaten to turn out the lights if they don't get their way, but only rarely do they pass laws for the betterment of our country. No wonder the people are fed up.
But now Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein has done them a huge favor and given them the opportunity to recover their reputations. He has appointed Robert Mueller as special counsel in the matter of putative Russian meddling with our election.



Even though some -- with justification -- wonder what precise crime has been committed to merit this appointment, given the unremitting nature of the opposition and the inordinate amount of our national attention this controversy is taking, plus a media so over-heated it's causing global warming all by itself, we have no choice but to clear the air once and for all. Otherwise this may be with us into the next millennium.

https://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2017...t-legislating/

[Platapus]

From President Trump

No politician in history, and I say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly."

Mr. President, there is a Mr. Lincoln, Mr. McKinley, Mr. Garfield, and a Mr. Kennedy waiting to see you.

[mapuc]

Originally Posted by August

Markus you are 100% correct. And I think that this new investigation might finally get to the bottom of who did what and when. I also think that unlike the Trump indictment they hope for, the Democrats, specifically Clinton and Obama, may just find themselves under the microscope too and we know that Clinton has a lot of baggage in that area. Russian uraniaum deals, pay for access, mishandling of classified documents etc.



Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...s-putin-regime

Interesting read-I didn't read all of it of course a little here and a little there.

You comment made me wonder.

Lets start with Hillary Clinton and Obama-Aren't they out of the White House and aren't they out of American politics, meaning not having influence on what is going on in the White House ?

If the investigation finds anything on these two person that was against America law they shall of course be prosecuted and put to trail.

Now to Trump

Isn't he the leader of The US ? Your President and as in this position isn't it he who should be the first to come under this investigation ?

So he once and for all can be either cleared of this allegation or impeached(which I hope not will happen)

Was only wondering

Markus

[August]

Originally Posted by mapuc

So he once and for all can be either cleared of this allegation or impeached(which I hope not will happen)

Was only wondering

Markus

Yes, and maybe this will now happen one way or the other instead of it being dragged out forever.

[vienna]

Originally Posted by August

Nobody who wasn't there could possibly know what was shared. Several people who actually were there and in a position to know what is sensitive and what is not have publicly stated that nothing was shared which wasn't already public information. That's how.

All the stories and allegations streaming out about what was said in the Trump-Russians meeting are glaringly lacking a very important factor: substantiated denial. All we hear from the Trump Oval Office is a lot of whining and carping about leaks; not once has the Trump White House given substantiated evidence to rebut what is being reported. Even today, when the reported content of Trump's meeting with the Russian's came out, the administration didn't even try to deny the reports and, instead just started crying about leaks. This certainly gives the appearance of a tacit acknowledgement of the veracity of the reports; they can't defend the content, so they go after the conduit. Trump and his cohorts couldn't have painted them selves in a worst light even if they walked around wearing signs saying "Guilty". To paraphrase the Chump-In-Chief:

James Comey Donald Trump better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts carping about leaking to the press!

...I found this statement from one of your previous posts interesting:

You have an article written by a biased and hostile media organization that claims to quote unnamed sources who were not even in the room when the statements in question were supposed to be made.

This is versus several people with completely honorable reputations that were actually in the room at the time and all have come forward and publicly said that nothing of the sort happened.

You want me or anyone else to take you seriously? Provide some actual evidence instead of trying to make us believe the veracity of a political hit piece.

[Italics mine]

The ability to say this with a straight face is impressive. Given that Trump, himself, is a well known liar, who even lies about the lies he lies about, and
has a reputation as a charlatan, bombast, and conniving swindler (ask any of the multitude of people and businesses who have had to sue him to force him to honor contractual obligations) and whose financial dealings are so sullied no major US bank will do business with him, his credibility and personal honor, and reputation are beyond beneath "completely honorable". If your going to hold up someone as an idol of honesty, be sure your idol doesn't have crumbling feet of clay...

As far as the other "honorable" men in Trump's circle, well, lets just say they emulate and follow their master...

If I may paraphrase you:

You want me or anyone else to take you seriously? Provide some actual evidence instead of trying to make us believe the veracity of a political hit piece the ethically and morally bankrupt current occupant of the Oval Office...




<O>

[Rockstar]

Vienna seriously since when does anyone have to prove their innocnce? Something new to the Oaths of office we dont know about? Step back and look at this thread for a moment the only one complaining is you. If you are part of this investigation or privy to information the rest of dont have then present your evidence. Otherwise I recommend you quiet yourself for a moment , sit back and let the investigators do their job.

A lot of our civil liberties protections and rules of press ethics are designed to prevent this situation you seem to revell in. Something is very wrong when a citizen finds himself being accused for an extended period of time, held in contempt and public suspicion without being aware of the exact nature, or origin, of the accusations he faces. Then in addition to that he's expected by you to present some sort of evidence of his innocence?

Edit

[vienna]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Vienna seriously since when does anyone have to prove their innocnce? Something new to the Oaths of office we dont know about? Step back and look at this thread for a moment the only one complaining is you. If you are part of this investigation or privy to information the rest of dont have then present your evidence. Otherwise I recommend you quiet yourself for a moment , sit back and let the investigators do their job.

A lot of our civil liberties protections and rules of press ethics are designed to prevent this situation you seem to revell in. Something is very wrong when a citizen finds himself being accused for an extended period of time, held in contempt and public suspicion without being aware of the exact nature, or origin, of the accusations he faces. Then in addition to that he's expected by you to present some sort of evidence of his innocence?

Interesting. So, the fact Trump, et al, are spreading all manner of innuendo and unsubstantiated accusations against the press and individuals who have been either reporting about or involved in the whole Trump mess, without even a shred of fact to back up their claims is ethically and morally alright with you, but the press and individuals who have been either reporting about or involved in the whole Trump mess who you criticize should be required to ascribe to a code of conduct you won't even require of the Trump administration? Is this a case of "do as I say, not do as I do"? If you think Trump is in this mess because of a vociferous press, then consider all his miseries are self-visited because the idiot can't keep his mouth shut or his Twitter-happy thumbs off his mobile. He could have done what any rational individual would do and invoke his right to silence, let the investigations play out and deal with whatever may occur; instead, he grossly and inappropriately interferes with the investigations, spouts off, whining about how ill-used he is, taunts, badgers, cajoles, and demeans, at every turn, any who oppose him and makes wild accusations; and therein lies the problem: if you are going to require the press, or anyone or anything else to provide substantiation of their reportage, then the same standard should apply to Trump to provide substantiation of his accusations. There is no free pass just for being President; respect goes to the office, not necessarily to the office holder. He is no more above the need to prove his accusations than the press theirs. Until he or his minions can find the wherewithal to actually back up their claims, they are just as open to the need for proof as the press, et al...

Trump's ravings about leaks and the need to stop them and even criminally prosecute the perpetrators is curious; the latest, undenied, leak about the content of the Trump-Russians meeting could only have come from someone who was in the room at the time; since Trump went to extra effort to ensure no one other than the Russian contingent and selected White House staff were present (even to the exclusion of US or other press), it would be logical the leak came from either the Russians themselves (remember, Putin has offered a transcript of the meeting) or from one of those very select Trump staffers chosen by Trump himself. Given that neither Trump nor his staff have denied the content, merely decried the reporting of the content, perhaps Trump should clean up what appears to be his own leaky swamp of an office or be a bit more circumspect of his Russian 'friends' and their intentions...




<O>

[Skybird]

A simple Google search for "Trump quotes" can reveal immediately how often Trump has talked garbage, bull, lies, and contradicted himself. The count, btw, is no longer in the dozens, but hundreds.

An unscrupulous, lying pussy grabber he is, uneducated, intellectually defunct, all he knows about politics is what he has seen in old gangster movies and now he acts like a little boy copying the behaviour of godfathers and Al Capone and thinks that slamming his fist and stomping his feet and talking dirty makes him a big man.

And now on your knees, you worms! Its the pussy-grabbing president of the United States we are talking about, so pay respect!






This king is naked, no matter some people's illusions.

[Onkel Neal]

Originally Posted by Platapus

From President Trump



Mr. President, there is a Mr. Lincoln, Mr. McKinley, Mr. Garfield, and a Mr. Kennedy waiting to see you.

True.

And for a "Leader", he sure whines a lot about fairness.

Originally Posted by mapuc

Interesting read-I didn't read all of it of course a little here and a little there.

You comment made me wonder.

Lets start with Hillary Clinton and Obama-Aren't they out of the White House and aren't they out of American politics, meaning not having influence on what is going on in the White House ?

We would like to think so but no, Obama/Clinton and a large number of lifer politicians, aids, and bureaucrats are still very much present and active in Washington. It's their life, and they don't go quietly back to regular jobs just because the opposition is elected. They are working to undermine the present administration. This is where the media gets a lot of their inside information, from "aids" and "sources". I'm sure the same thing occurred under Obama, but the mainstream media is much less interested in smearing someone they look up to. Smearing Trump is easy, he makes it easy.

[mapuc]

^ Thank you for giving a little lesson in American politics-Guess you could say-once politicians always a politicians.

Before bedtime I listen to the news on Danish Radio and there they talked about the lawyers in the White House was preparing for a possible impeachment.

So here is my what-if Trump is impeached- question

What will happen to the Republican party ? - I know there are Republicans who are strongly supporting Trump and those who are not

What will happen to the relationship between Democrats and the Republican in the Senat and Congress

What will happen on the streets in USA ? Will there be some demonstration and will the be some kind of riots ?

If the investigation show that Russia clearly had helped Trump and a lot more in the American 2016 Election

What will happen to the Relationship between USA and Russia ?

Edit I could also make what if-they don't find anything on Trump-Russia I didn't cause I presume life goes on and Trump stay as your President until next election. Of course the debate on American forums and Facebook will go on.


Markus

[Onkel Neal]

I would be fine with impeaching Trump. But the whole vicious cycle would start over again and Pence would be the evil President who must be stopped.

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I would be fine with impeaching Trump. But the whole vicious cycle would start over again and Pence would be the evil President who must be stopped.

Probably.

What baffles me most is how the whole USA cannot come up with anything better than Trump, Pence, Clinton and the others.
Isn't that weird?
That country has the most elite universities and leads in many ways, yet it can only come up with more or less human waste as presidential candidates?
It's absurd, but of course, observable in other western countries as well. The extend though, seems way more severe.

I wonder why that is.