US Politics Thread 2016-2020

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by u crank

You're doing it again.

Alright, alright, I mustn't generalise, I rag on other people enough for it.

Honestly, I don't tend to think of Trump as Hitler anyway, more of a Mussolini than anything else. But it's what his accession to power has legitimised in many...distasteful...people which really concerns me, and the fact that such behaviour, viewpoints and actions are become more and more acceptable in the western world, especially over the last twelve months.
Still, there's not much can be done about it at the end of the day, certainly not by me, so...

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

And as for those 55 million gun owners...most of them probably voted for Trump anyway, so they won't check or balance him.

Gee thanks for the insult. You've got me and the other 55 (+) million gun owners fitted out for nazi armbands already.

Is this what you Brits mean by special relationship? Thinking you have the right to judge us like that?

[Catfish]

Buddhaid wrote

Trying to change the subject?

So.. some afghanian subjects




At that time, Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.

[u crank]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Alright, alright, I mustn't generalise, I rag on other people enough for it.

We all do it.

But it's what his accession to power has legitimised in many...distasteful...people which really concerns me, and the fact that such behaviour, viewpoints and actions are become more and more acceptable in the western world, especially over the last twelve months.

My own point of view is that these people have always been there. I would much rather have them exposed for what they are than have them moving in the shadows. As to it being more acceptable I would have to ask by who? Certainly not by those who oppose them. Certainly not in the American media where Trump and his followers are constantly being vilified. People with strong leanings, left or right like to hear the sound of their own voice. There is no longer any debate, just rhetoric and propaganda.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by u crank

We all do it.



My own point of view is that these people have always been there. I would much rather have them exposed for what they are than have them moving in the shadows. As to it being more acceptable I would have to ask by who? Certainly not by those who oppose them. Certainly not in the American media where Trump and his followers are constantly being vilified. People with strong leanings, left or right like to hear the sound of their own voice. There is no longer any debate, just rhetoric and propaganda.

That's true, but the problem is that they seem to be getting more legitimised than discouraged. Could you imagine the likes of Marine Le Pen or Geert Wilders being as powerful twenty years ago?

Originally Posted by August

Gee thanks for the insult. You've got me and the other 55 (+) million gun owners fitted out for nazi armbands already.

Is this what you Brits mean by special relationship? Thinking you have the right to judge us like that?

If you like, cupcake.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by u crank

[...]
My own point of view is that these people have always been there. I would much rather have them exposed for what they are than have them moving in the shadows. [...].

Right.
A lot of self-important people (including me) thought we could take the last 50 years of relatively calm and peaceful time in Europe to be self-evident, and that all chauvinists and nationalists (for lack of a better term) would die out sooner or later.
Time to get rid of this self-delusion.

Today the new Bundespraesident has been elected, in Germany. Norbert Lammert held a speech not only honouring the last BP, but to remind the people what democracy stands for, in Europe, and why it is wrong for nations to encapsulate. Very calm, but powerful with a lot of hints and side blows. And he did not even mention Erdoghan.
I liked it

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Catfish

Right.
A lot of self-important people (including me) thought we could take the last 50 years of relatively calm and peaceful time in Europe to be self-evident, and that all chauvinists and nationalists (for lack of a better term) would die out sooner or later.
Time to get rid of this self-delusion.

Today the new Bundespraesident has been elected, in Germany. Norbert Lammert held a speech not only honouring the last BP, but to remind the people what democracy stands for, in Europe, and why it is wrong for nations to encapsulate. Very calm, but powerful with a lot of hints and side blows. And he did not even mention Erdoghan.
I liked it

I guess it was too much to hope for that we'd actually learn from history and be able to learn to live together, wasn't it?

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

If you like, cupcake.

But I don't like it cupcake. Why such hatred at a segment of the population that donated freely to you when you folks needed it most. Maybe next time you need saving ask somebody else.

[Catfish]

Originally Posted by Oberon

I guess it was too much to hope for that we'd actually learn from history and be able to learn to live together, wasn't it?

We still can. Despite all sides trying to make themselves "great" again and making it harder, we will.
The whole point of the UK being a member of the EU was that trade agreements were made through the union, and not by every individual member. Every member is weaker in negotiations than if the agreements are negotiated collectively.

[Skybird]

"There are times in history when 'optimism' simply means cowardice and irresponsible dazzlement, whereas 'pessimism' at least allows us the possibility to meet what is unavoidable in an honourable attitude and with open eyes."

David Engels on the decline of the EU, and the decline of the first Roman republic. I think if you ask him, he would mean the US with this as well, the whole Western civilization and culture, that is.

Greetings from Spengler.

On the German president elected:

Walter Schleichmeier is a very bad choice for the post of federal president, on the other hand the last one was not better either. Schleichmeier still wants to create an artificial retort identity that gets imposed on people from top to bottom, with universal, non-individual (regarding history and regionality) and politically correct blueprint "values" from the social-egineering high security lab, that are more about not excluding foreign identity-forming values than about accentuating one's own values and characteristics - and this is what has brought the EU into the crisis of people not trustign it anymore. As president should especially focus on the historically grown identity of his people - the one whose descendants we Westerners all are and that formed us as well as people of given local regions. The Eu instead wnats us to abandon our European heritage, and wants us to think of ourselves as EUpeans. But "European" means a history of Platon and Aristotle, the church, the colonial and imperial age, the Romans and the Greeks and all of them having formed up our identity to wehat it is today, depsite the local, regional, national differences. The Eu stands - for what? A test tube theory of some social engineers writing down a still birth of a Eu constitution that orginally should at least have referred to the importance of the ancient Greek fundament of our philosophical tradition, but that then was deleted due to a concern that foreign cultures - that are not us - could feel excluded, confronted, offended, or whatever. So after bitter fights a suggested preamble with an old Greek quote was skipped, and all references to the role of the Christian church for European history also were deleted. - Schleichmeier, on his behalf, already this evening was instead babbling - he loves to babble and form an important face to that - again about the general unification value of the EU's test tube value and surrogate identity it wants to gift Europe with. Oh thank you so much for it. Reality-denying blokeheads like you have made Pegida and AfD great.

Not my president, thanks. As a foreign minister he was a loser, not putting a single ball, and wrongly assessing every single critical event and every crisis erupting during his time in office, he has misjudged really everything he was confronted with, just everything. As president at least he cannot do damage anymore, the post is almost meaningless and compares to film festivals - where film makers and actors meet to celebrate themselves and tap each other on their shoulders and reassuring each other how very great they are.

What these people, these politicians consider to be a vivid, living participation of the people, compares to the arranged youth celebration parades that we have seen in the GDR. Sterility instead of spontaneity, infatuation instead of clear sight, obedience instead of self-responsible consideration and choice/decision.

Und dann diese herablassende Oberlehrerhaftigkeit und Selbstgefälligkeit... uaaah. Cruel.

[Catfish]

I posted this for the speech of Bundestagspräsident Lammert, not because of the unfortunately elected Bundespräsident Steinmeier.

i do not like Steinmeier at all. Not only because of his lame and boring behaviour, but for all his shortcomings while being foreign minister.
And last not least because of Murat Kurnaz, whose case illuminated the US torture methods in Guantanamo.

" ...Kurnaz wurde als „ungesetzlicher Kombattant“ eingeordnet. Dieser Begriff, von George W. Bush im sogenannten „Krieg gegen den Terror“ verwendet, dient als Rechtfertigung, den Inhaftierten ihre Rechte im Ermittlungsverfahren zu versagen und sie zu foltern, da es den Begriff weder im Kriegsvölkerrecht noch im Genfer Abkommen III über die Behandlung von Kriegsgefangenen gibt..."

At least he has not much say, as a BP.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

But I don't like it cupcake. Why such hatred at a segment of the population that donated freely to you when you folks needed it most. Maybe next time you need saving ask somebody else.

Are you going to hold that over us for the rest of this nations existence? Or have you forgotten that we paid for a lot of that help, in money, in land, and in lives.

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Are you going to hold that over us for the rest of this nations existence? Or have you forgotten that we paid for a lot of that help, in money, in land, and in lives.

The war cost us a little more than a few guns too and if you want to compare us to nazis then maybe you need to be reminded of that again.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by August

Right, because the war cost us nothing but a few guns and if you want to compare us to nazis then maybe you need to be reminded of that again.

We gave you our bases, we gave you $82.5m, and we gave you support in nearly every major war you have been in since 1945 (with the exception of Vietnam). At what point do you stop saying "If it wasn't for us..."?
We get it, you helped us, we're grateful, but that does not colour any argument in the modern day. Besides, how many of the men who fought their way through Western Europe and into the islands of the Pacific would want to turn around and say "Yes, I'm happy that Donald Trump and all that he represents and has said and done is my President."
Come on August, step away from the party line for a moment, think outside the box, is Donald Trump the right man to be President? Of course he isn't! So why support him? Why pledge your allegiance to someone who is so unbefitting to be your leader?

[August]

Originally Posted by Oberon

Come on August, step away from the party line for a moment, think outside the box, is Donald Trump the right man to be President? Of course he isn't! So why support him? Why pledge your allegiance to someone who is so unbefitting to be your leader?

No he is not the "right" man because that guy didn't run in this past election. Now I don't know who that is but I suspect that you and I would have different opinions on who it could be anyways. He was clearly the better choice than the alternatives we were given in the last election including the one I actually did vote for. Frigging pot head didn't even know where Aleppo was.

I support Trump because he is my president. Duly and fairly elected he deserves it. And (imo) so far he is not doing a bad job of it. Yeah the immigration suspension was poorly initiated but that's to be expected of a new administration made up of governmental outsiders. They'll improve i'm sure.

His other actions and nominations I agree with for the most part. Lobbyist ban, regulation reduction, justice department orders, Preibus, Mattis, Gorsuch, Flynn, DeVous. Not all of them mind (Perry?wtf!) but far more than the ones Clinton would have been signing.

The Democrats are going to howl and whine no matter what he does and that howling and whining will be promoted as fact by their media lapdogs. The American people didn't buy it then and they won't buy it in 2018 so I hope they keep it up like you say because it's only going to hurt them in the long run.