Destroyers Discussion (getting rid of pin point drops)

[CB..]

he he! i finally realised that i allready knew the answer to the puzzle regarding the inclusion of generic AI_sensors in the AI_sensors.dat as well as named specific sensor--

it's because there are generic un named vessels available for inclusion in missions campaign etc what difference this makes or even if it's of any vast use i dunno-- but it clears one question up anyway--

some of the available generic warships are as follows (there's a more complete list some-where)

type 8=escort carrier
type 11 =battleship
type 9 =fleet carrier
type 6 =light cruiser
type 13 =auxilary cruiser
type 4 =destroyer
type 3 =destroyer escort
type 2 =frigate
type 1 =corvette

and can be written into the missions campaigns like this--

[RndGroup 166.RndUnit 3]
Type=4
Origin=British
Side=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19390101
No=1
Escort=True
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=3


(note that there is no named class entry just a generic type entry
ie; Class=DDClemson etc)

this explains(?) the inclusion of the generic AI_hydrophone sonar etc sensors in the AI_sensors.dat--

these sensors are used for the "no name" generic vessels--

there aren't a huge amount of these generic DD's in the normal campaign (if any?)

but it's more semi usefull info

as stock the most agressive british "escorts" for me anyhuw were the black swan frigates--
these are listed as type=2
if the game will accept type=2 used for normal destroyers escorts etc
(ie; it is a flexible AI instruction to behave in a certain fashion rather than it being essentail to have the the correct type number for each vessel)
then it might allow for some extra testing--making a DD behave like a DE or vice versa--by changing it's type number in the mission/campaign file--

if not it'll just crash the game or do nowt--

this might explain why my generic escort carriers i added to some of the convoys like this

[RndGroup 166.RndUnit 3]
Type=8
Origin=British
Side=0
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19390101
No=1
Escort=false
SpawnProbability=50
CrewRating=3


ping me as i get close to them--so it obviously has been automatically equiped with sonar as part of it's generic set up--there being no specific folder containing sensor cfg or equipment loud outs etc--generic vessels get what they're given etc etc

is it just me or has the site been a night-mare to get into recently? took 3 hours trying to-day before the forums or any element of subsim.com would load-- even the google cached pages for subsim.com wouldn't load--scrub that Neal mentions that there's been some sever out-ages recently so that covers it--


i've had a dig thru the warship sensor files and can't find any escort that's equiped with the QGAP hydrophone-- might be worth testing this sensor on in game vessels to see how it performs- or wether it has any interesting qualitys

[gouldjg]

Well done CB,

Its a great start,

Agree about the frigate,

Had my suspicions type may show something into the puzzle.

Also having a hell of a time trying to log on to this site.

Lets just pray, something good comes from it.

Will speak later as it is kids day on PC. I get no word edgeways with the other half.

I really do hope you can find ways to manipulate this without having to manually change each one.

Later I will try in the single missions to change ship types, even for the named ones. Who Knows?????

Or

Do you have any specific way that we should be approaching this

[HEMISENT]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

Also having a hell of a time trying to log on to this site.

Yeah me too, the last four days it takes numerous attempts to get here
I've been trying on and off for 3 hours and just now got on.
I thought maybe it was just me.

[gouldjg]

First test,

Turned all type 3 escorts to type 4 on 505

Result = Crash .

However I have not yet relieved them from escort duties so will try that and get back on while I can :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

OK, for some reason this group does not have settings that allow to disable the escort command.

I am pretty dumb in this area guys, so expect some stupid suggestions from me as usual.

Can we in any of the ship files find out how to change what ship should be what so we can edit it.?

I am lost

I feel so close but hit by a brick wall.

I need a hero here.

[CB..]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

Well done CB,


Do you have any specific way that we should be approaching this

cheers..

one additional thought might be that the game might work in the same fashion as SH2

ie the different countrys have different AI routines--

so examining the SIDE=0 entry

[RndGroup 166.RndUnit 3]
Type=4
Origin=British
Side=0 <------------here
CargoExt=-1
CargoInt=-1
CfgDate=19390101
No=1
Escort=True
SpawnProbability=100
CrewRating=3


might allso be use-full--- i noticed previously that the escorts don't allways carry the same side entry as the convoy it self

looking at the ROSTER/defside.cfg

here's brief excerpt

; side 0 - neutral
; side 1 - allies
; side 2 - axis

[SideEntry 1]
Country=British
Side=0
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19390902

[SideEntry 2]
Country=British
Side=1
StartDate=19390903
EndDate=19450825

[SideEntry 3]
Country=British
Side=0
StartDate=19450826
EndDate=19451231

[SideEntry 4]
Country=American
Side=0
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19411208

[SideEntry 5]
Country=American
Side=1
StartDate=19411209
EndDate=19450825


shows how the american side alters during the war--
all well and accurate and so on-- BUT the campaign.rnd
doesn't allways follow this rule--american and british escorts being assigned as NEUTRAL (side=0) yet still attacking--
regardless of the in game date--etc

plus going into the roster/british/sea folder
and opening the cfg files gives a possible concrete way to alter the type entrys to match any changes made in your missions etc and might help with any problems this creates

brief excerpt from the huntIII cfg

[UnitClass]
ClassName=DDHuntIII
UnitType=4
AppearanceDate=19410601
DisappearanceDate=19460101
DisplayName=BR DD Hunt III


changing both these entrys to the desired type might get past any "check" the game does when loading a mission etc---that's if it has any effect worth a damn anyway--


so if either the type or the side controls in any way the AI behaviuor of the vessels then it might be just a matter of editing this to see what occurs--

if a specific type or side setting does work obviuosly better than the stock set up then a simple search and replace job in wordpad will get the edit job done in a minute or two for the entire campaign file

deleting all the class entrys would allso be simple to test by replacing every instance of the word
class
with
;class

tho not every class of vessel for every nationality has it's generic equivilent
it is possible to add the full range of generic vessels to all the nations by adding the vessels to the nations sea folder--Col worked that one out i can't remember the exact trick--

but in a mission rather than the campaign this should be ok to test against only british and american shipping ( both sides have the full list of generic vessels/aircraft etc available--)

so then it's just play and see i suppose

[HEMISENT]

Silly question on TT's Mini Tweaker.
Changing values in the tweak files is no problem but I haven't a clue how to restore the original value. Do I need to make seperate backup copies of everything or are these kept somewhere-what is the restore file process? Also, what function does Refresh Tweak File serve. Could not find it anywhere in the read me's
My aplogies if this has been asked already but I could not find the answer.

[CB..]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

First test,

Turned all type 3 escorts to type 4 on 505

Result = Crash .

.

try this

plus going into the roster/british/sea folder
and opening the cfg files gives a possible concrete way to alter the type entrys to match any changes made in your missions etc and might help with any problems this creates

brief excerpt from the huntIII cfg

[UnitClass]
ClassName=DDHuntIII
UnitType=4
AppearanceDate=19410601
DisappearanceDate=19460101
DisplayName=BR DD Hunt III


changing both these entrys to the desired type might get past any "check" the game does when loading a mission etc---that's if it has any effect worth a damn anyway--


just in case you miss it in the above post--

if this doesn't work then the type entry is "hard coded" ( even now i still can't say that phrase without getting an involountary twitch-- a hang over from SH2) and will need deeper hacks to get at it---

[gouldjg]

Cheers CB

Yes I noticed I changed type in mission but not in the cfg files for the ships.

By the way,

I don't suppose anyone can post what the first 2 lines were for the 505 mission DD's were.

I deleted the class and name and forgot to back up .

I am just praying this is not hardcoded and that it does have a effect.

I will catch up soon I am sure.

[CB..]

heres the entire 505 mission easier than editing it to just show the class etc

[gouldjg]

Thanks

Saves me an hour or 2.

You can delete now if you wish

Right now comes the testing,

Test 1

So I am going to ensure both the ships and the mission are using type 4's.

If that don't

Test 2

I may edit the DD's as a different group just for the fun of it and to try and detatch them from the protect their carrier responsibilities.

I think something is forcing DE's to return to formation after a period of time unless they have strong strong reasons not too.

Either this or Like you say, they weigh up the odds and decide to leave best in attack.

If this don't work

Test 3

I will check if my skull can withstand a bullet

[CB..]

tell you what is puzzling me-- has anybody found which file or files contain the AI instructions---not the sensor information or method of calculating sensor information but the actual AI instructions---

the start ASW stop ASW--drop DC's --don't drop DC's --move fast to intercept-- move slow and monitor -- etc etc etc instructions--
anyone?

a good old look round those files with a hex editor would certainly give some food for thought--i dunno where they are---

[gouldjg]

I have been looking for that file for ages now.

I just do not seem to find any indications as to which it could be and although I scan with a hex editor through as much as I can, I can never really find anything that looks similar.

[CB..]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

I have been looking for that file for ages now.

I just do not seem to find any indications as to which it could be and although I scan with a hex editor through as much as I can, I can never really find anything that looks similar.

just had a good old scan thru the exe file and the sim.act file absolutely nothing--

i did find something that could be of use with the help of TimeTravellor---

if the hydrophones sensors calculates the RPM of the subs engines in order to calculate wether it's detectable or not--
that's if i have understood the info linked by teddy bar

if we increase the RPM needed to maintain a certain speed then the sub will become easier to detect--


do a search for RPM/KT in the SH3sim.act file and it looks like this could be edited---not by me i hasten to add-- but TT might know what to do--

if this worked then that's another possible method of attacking the problem--



ther's allso mention of something called the SIM MACHINE ACTION CONTROLLER--but that's beyond my ability to find

[gouldjg]

Am I right in thinking the following,

1. The sim.cfg

[AI detection]
Lost contact time=15

I am thinking this is only effective with DD & has no effect with DE.

[CB..]

Originally Posted by gouldjg

Am I right in thinking the following,

1. The sim.cfg

[AI detection]
Lost contact time=15

I am thinking this is only effective with DD & has no effect with DE.

AFAIK it affects all the escorts--what i think might be the issue with the DE's for you is that you have a high speedfactor (are you still using this?)

if the speedfactor is higher than the maximum speed of the DE (which is much slower than a full on DD) then the DE will be able to maintain contact with you for much longer periods of time --ie: pernamently--as it's max speed is less than the speedfactor-- no blind spot when it excellerates to drop DC's at all- or when it is going at flank

that would make it appear that the lost conatct time wa only applying to the faster DD's -- it's just that the DE's haven't lost contact--

just a theory tho--

say on the plus side if we are going to find the AI routines you've show what we should be searching for

AI DETECTION

as this is the precise wording used for this in the cfg file it must allso be the way it is wored in the main files somewhere-- find the word detection somewhere and it might be close--