Hiroshima

[StdDev]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

Who else could have drawn and held together that psychotic gang of misfits?

Neal seems to have a knack for that kinda thing! :rotfl:

[Von Tonner]

[/quote] True, but Hitler put into extreme action the ideology. The 'Jewish Conspiracy' was a part of it. The Nazi party would still have been but I'm sure there would not have been extermination camps, nor would there have been a world war.[/quote]

I'm not so sure one can say there would not have been a world war bradclark1.

It is worth recalling that at the Treaty of Versaille the USA position on reparations for Germany were a lot more lenient than her Allies. So much so, that when Wilson couldn't get them adopted and the Allies went ahead with their own much harsher ones he actually warned Europe nations that they were sowing the seeds for another world war. It was also this 'excessive spoils to the victors' that helped sustain the isolationast policies of the USA at the time.

[Weigh-Man]

`Chock - In the UK, Group Captain Leonard Cheshire, who was invited as an observer on one of the nuclear raids, said that it made him very anti-war, and in fact ended up driving him to pursue a very humanitarian life afterwards, culminating in his creation of the Leonard Cheshire Foundation, which provides charity sheltered housing for the infirm in the UK. An organisation from which many thousands of people have benefitted (and still do).`

I never knew that, I do a lot of work for leonard Cheshire care homes in the UK.

You live and learn

[bradclark1]

I'm not so sure one can say there would not have been a world war bradclark1.

It is worth recalling that at the Treaty of Versaille the USA position on reparations for Germany were a lot more lenient than her Allies. So much so, that when Wilson couldn't get them adopted and the Allies went ahead with their own much harsher ones he actually warned Europe nations that they were sowing the seeds for another world war. It was also this 'excessive spoils to the victors' that helped sustain the isolationast policies of the USA at the time.

The treaty was violated time and again and no country did a thing about it.

[w-subcommander]

Originally Posted by joea

Sure, but as you are Russian I have to ask, should Stalin have done the same for the Germans expelled by the Red Army from East Prussia and Katyn etc.?

I never said the Allies don't have blood on their hands but that the Axis have the blood of both their dead as well as Allied.

Stalin should , but he was tyrant in totalitarian state, almost a god. Churchill, FDR and Truman were leaders of democratic countries, "free world" as they defined. Nobles oblige.

[Von Tonner]

[/quote] The treaty was violated time and again and no country did a thing about it.[/quote]

100% correct. But my point is this:
It was something I was taught in my early years as a business man. When your adversary is down on his knees and defeated, don't go and then kick him in the teeth. Give him the hand of concilliation - if he then still bites it, kick him in the teeth.

[Letum]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

MaoTseTung - Zhu De
Stalin - Lenin
Hitler - Nobody. Without him Nazi Germany wouldn't have been.

Lenin?!
Lenin and the Bolsheviks ruled in a very diffrent way fthan Stalin and the Soviets.

[bradclark1]

Originally Posted by Letum

Lenin?!
Lenin and the Bolsheviks ruled in a very diffrent way fthan Stalin and the Soviets.

The name Bolsheviks and Soviets are one and the same but I understand what you are trying to say.
Stalin learned mass terror from Lenin.

To protect the newly-established Bolshevik government from counterrevolutionaries and other political opponents, the Bolsheviks created a secret police, the Cheka.

Lenin had always been an advocate of "mass terror against enemies of the revolution".

Red Terror - Between 1918–1921 up to 200,000 were executed.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

The treaty was violated time and again and no country did a thing about it.

Two reasons for that. The first is war weariness. Nobody wanted to get into another world war after that last doozie. Secondly it was also partly sympathy for Germany that allowed the rest of Europe to let Hitler grow. The absurdly punitive sections of the Versailles Treaty led to a severely empoverished and economically stalled Germany and as such Hitler's 'noble' goals for rebuilding the German state were, combined with the unwillingness to broach war, accepted and even encouraged through inaction. There were those that saw the truth but inevitably the seeds of 1919 would grow.

Marshal Foch was ridiculously right. Whats 1919 + 20? :hmm:

[w-subcommander]

Originally Posted by Letum

Lenin?!
Lenin and the Bolsheviks ruled in a very diffrent way fthan Stalin and the Soviets.

Sir, You re absolutely right. I ll give you an "A-" in History of the Communists Party of SU. Why -? You didnt live in Soviet Union ;-)
Bolsheviks were finished by Stalin till 1936. Stalin made himself an "emperor" of Soviet Union. Even his Constitution was made in 1936. It was an end of the Bolshevism.

[w-subcommander]

Originally Posted by bradclark1

The name Bolsheviks and Soviets are one and the same but I understand what you are trying to say.
Stalin learned mass terror from Lenin.

To protect the newly-established Bolshevik government from counterrevolutionaries and other political opponents, the Bolsheviks created a secret police, the Cheka.

Lenin had always been an advocate of "mass terror against enemies of the revolution".

Red Terror - Between 1918–1921 up to 200,000 were executed.

Stalin and Lenin both actually learned about Terror from History of French Revolution.
Lenin did Robespierre(srry for spelling) part. Stalin neutrolized russian robespierians and then did most of the Napoleon part. "Revolution always eats its children..." "Eating" was Stalin Part
Lenin:
Scholars estimate that between 1918–1921 up to 200,000 were executed. This was during the Civil War when excesses were carried out by both Reds and Whites, and Lenin's regime was in deadly peril from the latter
Stalin:
The government archives record that about 800,000 prisoners were executed (for either political or criminal offences) under Stalin; another 1.7 million died of privation or other causes in the Gulags; and some 389,000 perished during kulak resettlement - a total of about 3 million victims.

[w-subcommander]

Originally Posted by ASWnut101

You (as an American) are pathetic. Do you mind me stabbing an American flag on a sharpened pole through your heart and pinning you to the ground?
I can't belive I even bothered to post here.

Sir, I think you are great lover of Patriotic Act.
I m grateful to America for everything it done for me.Including saving life of my father(surgery). It s a wonderful country with wonderfull people. I ll protect it against any enemy that will invide. But it is not the BEST in the world!!!!!!!!!!! This option is not exist!!!If you love your country -so, right it is the best for you, but inside , in heart.
USA has its good side and bad side!Like any other country!!! Patriotism is to love the country with all its best and worse stuff. And to be patriot doesnt mean to be blind or have hearing problems.
PUBLIC LOVE reminds me PORNOGRAPHY! I prefer to love privately like my nephew serving in US Army ( and he understands what real patriotism is).
"BEST in the WORLD" is good for commercial!!!!
"God bless America and no one else" i????????
I understand if you are American you must be an American and one of the greatest american achievements is tolerance and respect to others opinions.
About Hiroshima discussion from Wikipedia
"Eleanor Roosevelt spoke in support of this view when she said, in 1954, that Truman had "made the only decision he could," and that the bomb's use was necessary "to avoid tremendous sacrifice of American lives."[41] Others, including historian Gar Alperovitz, have argued that the use of nuclear weapons was unnecessary and inherently immoral.[42]"

[Dowly]

Originally Posted by w-subcommander

Stalin and Lenin both actually learned about Terror from History of French Revolution.
Lenin did Robespierre(srry for spelling) part. Stalin neutrolized russian robespierians and then did most of the Napoleon part. "Revolution always eats its children..." "Eating" was Stalin Part
Lenin:
Scholars estimate that between 1918–1921 up to 200,000 were executed. This was during the Civil War when excesses were carried out by both Reds and Whites, and Lenin's regime was in deadly peril from the latter
Stalin:
The government archives record that about 800,000 prisoners were executed (for either political or criminal offences) under Stalin; another 1.7 million died of privation or other causes in the Gulags; and some 389,000 perished during kulak resettlement - a total of about 3 million victims.

Plus the ~20million that Stalin killed just before the WWII.

[w-subcommander]

Originally Posted by Dowly

Plus the ~20million that Stalin killed just before the WWII.

Sorry but your numbers is not better than mine with my minors in Russian History and sourses like Radzinsky, Wikipedia etc and almost 30 years life experience in Russia. Your sourse was freaking Solzhenitsyn????? He said that his numbers was his own approximations.
There is 3 kind of Lie:lie, BIG LIE, and statistics.

[P_Funk]

Originally Posted by w-subcommander

There is 3 kind of Lie:lie, BIG LIE, and statistics.

Isn't that Twain?

edit. sorry it was Disraeli, popularized by Twain.