Algebraic Firing Solution - Page 2

TorpX · 02-24-13, 03:17 PM

I hope at least a few people have been able to make some use of this. In order to make the calculations less objectionable and time consuming, I've come up with a program that will crunch the numbers and display the results in a pleasing way. (30 minutes to do the math and 30 hours to get it to display right, lol.)

I know Gamefront and others have had their issues and not everyone can access these sites. Does anyone have any advice about how/where I could upload this for public use?

CapnScurvy · 02-24-13, 10:29 PM

What's the size of the download?

SubSim's "Downloads" server can handle about 40Mb or so. Anything larger Neil has an FTP site that's available for the asking. I've got two of my mods there (about 200 Mb each). The trouble with the FTP server is there seems to be a limit on how much your account holds. I've tried uploading a third mod of 200Mb+ with no luck. The upload freezes. I've attempted to get an answer from Neil about the FTP account limit but he's never got back to me.

Just a guess, but I'd think your mod could work on the regular SubSim's "Downloads" server.

TorpX · 02-24-13, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CapnScurvy

What's the size of the download?

...

Just a guess, but I'd think your mod could work on the regular SubSim's "Downloads" server.

It will be less than 3Mb. However, I have in mind some projects afterwards that I would like to offer. They would probably be of similar size. Also, it might be necessary for me to make adjustments or improvements.

Carrollsue · 02-24-13, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorpX

I hope at least a few people have been able to make some use of this. In order to make the calculations less objectionable and time consuming, I've come up with a program that will crunch the numbers and display the results in a pleasing way. (30 minutes to do the math and 30 hours to get it to display right, lol.)

I know Gamefront and others have had their issues and not everyone can access these sites. Does anyone have any advice about how/where I could upload this for public use?

I for one, have use it just to look at and understand what was going on, then altering it to see if I could come up with something I could use that faster. Bottom line, it shows everything about targeting, key for me SHOWS

TorpX · 02-24-13, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carrollsue

I for one, have use it just to look at and understand what was going on, then altering it to see if I could come up with something I could use that faster. Bottom line, it shows everything about targeting, key for me SHOWS

I'm glad it is of some value. It took some time for me to get the diagrams squared away, but I knew that outlining the method without some decent diagrams would only lead to confusion. It is very hard to learn anything about geometry and trig without drawing it out.

merc4ulfate · 03-14-15, 11:30 PM

I just lead the target enough in my head and never do the math. 10 degrees is usually good enough at the ranges I fire from.

sublynx · 03-21-15, 06:27 AM

I was thinking about using about using the program in SH3 and would need to find out the torpedo distance, reach and radius values for the G7e and G7a torpedoes. Measuring the distances in Attack Map F6 I got these following values.

They're pretty close to the values for the SH4 torpedoes.

Has anybody figured out working values for SH3?

TorpX · 03-23-15, 02:03 AM

AFAIK, nobody has tabulated these factors for SH3 torpedoes.

Since the US Mk. 10 and Mk. 14 seemed have identical radii and reach, I thought there was a good chance Ubi made them all the same.

About the reach; you use the expression "distance forward until fully turned". You need to know the distance the torpedo travels before it starts to turn. You also want to know the time lag (what I call the launch lag). This is the time lag for the torpedo to be ejected, and the time lost while the torpedo accelerates to speed.

I didn't have a perfect, or completely satisfactory, method for computing these values. However, you don't need them to be absolutely accurate to get hits.

TorpX · 07-21-13, 12:14 AM

Here is a long overdue update on the program I'm working on.

I've mainly been working on the program itself, but just recently have started some actual firings against moving ships. Anyway, almost all the basic elements are in place, I have the "sketch" function all done, apart from last minute tweaks, and I hope to start making final math checks fairly soon.

The program will enable the user to produce "sketches" like these:

This first one shows how the torpedo track will look if you are zoomed in close enough. I've used a larger value for the turning radius so you can see it better. In most cases, you will be making shots at a longer range and not using a 180 degree gyro angle (I hope ), so the curve of the track will appear abrupt. However, I wanted it to provide a good representation of the solution and have put in a lot of work on this aspect of the program. As you can guess, I've been having a little fun with it. You can compute solutions that your torpedoes cannot perform; there aren't any hard-coded limits built in.

The next shot shows what a more typical solution might look like. I used the same torpedo data with this set up. The curvature of the torpedo track is much less noticeable.

This last shot shows how it can be used to create a graphical record of an attack. I had to redo much of the code for the drawing portion, so the orientation of the sub can be changed. Before, the sub was always shown to be headed straight up toward the top. I still think the default heading is best for guaging angles and such, but for making a record, or comparing it to the SH4 charts, it is nice to be able to reorient the sketch.

Note that everything shown here can be put on the chart without outside "post-production" tools like Paint or such. Of course, you can calculate the solution without using the sketch function at all. Originally, I had it in mind to do just that, but the more I thought about it, the more I wanted to implement it in some way. It required quite a bit of effort before I was satisfied with it.

I need to do some more of the shooting gallery stuff, but I do not plan to conduct a mind-numbing number of tests. I have a good deal of confidence in the underlying math; I only need to refine the values associated with the torpedo reach, turning radius, and such. Right now, this is my biggest problem. I know the values I'm trying now are close, but not exactly a match. I thought I could tease out the numbers with various tests, but there are limitations with this approach. The in-game TDC only reports gyro-angles to the nearest degree, and shooting at moving ships is not exact, since they try to dodge the torpedoes. I will probably have to settle for values that are "close", and not quite spot-on. In any case this is the last big hurdle to finish.

02-24-13, 03:17 PM	#1
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	I hope at least a few people have been able to make some use of this. In order to make the calculations less objectionable and time consuming, I've come up with a program that will crunch the numbers and display the results in a pleasing way. (30 minutes to do the math and 30 hours to get it to display right, lol.) I know Gamefront and others have had their issues and not everyone can access these sites. Does anyone have any advice about how/where I could upload this for public use?

03-14-15, 11:30 PM	#6
merc4ulfate DILLIGAF Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: florida Posts: 2,058 Downloads: 210 Uploads: 0	I just lead the target enough in my head and never do the math. 10 degrees is usually good enough at the ranges I fire from. __________________ Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is. ~Isaac Asimov~ Mercfulfate 将補日本帝國海軍

03-21-15, 06:27 AM	#7
sublynx Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope Posts: 1,698 Downloads: 173 Uploads: 7	I was thinking about using about using the program in SH3 and would need to find out the torpedo distance, reach and radius values for the G7e and G7a torpedoes. Measuring the distances in Attack Map F6 I got these following values. They're pretty close to the values for the SH4 torpedoes. Has anybody figured out working values for SH3? __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS

03-23-15, 02:03 AM	#8
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	AFAIK, nobody has tabulated these factors for SH3 torpedoes. Since the US Mk. 10 and Mk. 14 seemed have identical radii and reach, I thought there was a good chance Ubi made them all the same. About the reach; you use the expression "distance forward until fully turned". You need to know the distance the torpedo travels before it starts to turn. You also want to know the time lag (what I call the launch lag). This is the time lag for the torpedo to be ejected, and the time lost while the torpedo accelerates to speed. I didn't have a perfect, or completely satisfactory, method for computing these values. However, you don't need them to be absolutely accurate to get hits.

07-21-13, 12:14 AM	#9
TorpX Silent Hunter Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 3,975 Downloads: 153 Uploads: 11	Here is a long overdue update on the program I'm working on. I've mainly been working on the program itself, but just recently have started some actual firings against moving ships. Anyway, almost all the basic elements are in place, I have the "sketch" function all done, apart from last minute tweaks, and I hope to start making final math checks fairly soon. The program will enable the user to produce "sketches" like these: This first one shows how the torpedo track will look if you are zoomed in close enough. I've used a larger value for the turning radius so you can see it better. In most cases, you will be making shots at a longer range and not using a 180 degree gyro angle (I hope ), so the curve of the track will appear abrupt. However, I wanted it to provide a good representation of the solution and have put in a lot of work on this aspect of the program. As you can guess, I've been having a little fun with it. You can compute solutions that your torpedoes cannot perform; there aren't any hard-coded limits built in. The next shot shows what a more typical solution might look like. I used the same torpedo data with this set up. The curvature of the torpedo track is much less noticeable. This last shot shows how it can be used to create a graphical record of an attack. I had to redo much of the code for the drawing portion, so the orientation of the sub can be changed. Before, the sub was always shown to be headed straight up toward the top. I still think the default heading is best for guaging angles and such, but for making a record, or comparing it to the SH4 charts, it is nice to be able to reorient the sketch. Note that everything shown here can be put on the chart without outside "post-production" tools like Paint or such. Of course, you can calculate the solution without using the sketch function at all. Originally, I had it in mind to do just that, but the more I thought about it, the more I wanted to implement it in some way. It required quite a bit of effort before I was satisfied with it. I need to do some more of the shooting gallery stuff, but I do not plan to conduct a mind-numbing number of tests. I have a good deal of confidence in the underlying math; I only need to refine the values associated with the torpedo reach, turning radius, and such. Right now, this is my biggest problem. I know the values I'm trying now are close, but not exactly a match. I thought I could tease out the numbers with various tests, but there are limitations with this approach. The in-game TDC only reports gyro-angles to the nearest degree, and shooting at moving ships is not exact, since they try to dodge the torpedoes. I will probably have to settle for values that are "close", and not quite spot-on. In any case this is the last big hurdle to finish.