Last Chance at my Skipper stripes...

Enigma · 12-04-06, 03:10 PM

Ive tried with DW. I reeeally have. And I just dont "get it".

I havent figured out if I dont know enough about whats going on, or if I just dont like the game that much. (im thinking its the former.) But ive had DW for almost a year now I suppose, and I still find myself completely hopeless at it. Ive tried to learn all the stations and equipment, but so far with minimal success. Sure, ive won a few missions, had some fun moments of glory, but the vast majority of time has been spent wondering what the hell is going on, how to target and kill an enemy, and what the hell that DEMON display is telling me.
Now, I can safely and professionally fly an airplane in the real world. I have figured out all the sophisticated equipment in "Lock on" and "Falcon 4.0" that allows me to pinpoint a small target with a laser and guide a AGM-65 there, and destroy it, but to this day, DW evades me, terribly.

Im going to cram the books, use this forum, and use tutorials, and take one last shot at figuring this game out. Either I figure it out and get my skipper stripes, or I fail, and the game goes on ebay.

DAB · 12-04-06, 03:30 PM

Good luck with all of that. I hope you figure out what the sticking point is because the games worth the effort. And keep posting on the forum

DAB.

PS. DEMON is telling you the speed of your target. Once you've worked out (and sometimes it takes an educated guess) what the identity of the platform is on the Narrowband sonar system, you look it up on the USNI Reference and find the T.P.K (turns per knot) figure which is usually near the top of the platform description. On Demon on the 688i, where it says Turns Per Knot, enter the figure you got from the USNI reference and then move the curser on the display to the middle of the first vertical stripe on the left. The figure in the bottom right then gives you the speed of the platform in knots. If you then go to TMA you can put in the speed in knots for the platform as one of the figures you need for a firing solution and lock that part of the solution (push the button next to knots on TMA). That makes it easier to figure out an accurate firing solution

Dr.Sid · 12-04-06, 03:33 PM

Play with 'show truth' on and just blast them away

sonar732 · 12-04-06, 05:23 PM

I might suggest joining a virtual navy that has a good training department or people who know their stuff to mentor you.

SeaQueen · 12-04-06, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enigma

Ive tried to learn all the stations and equipment, but so far with minimal success.

Naval simulators are a lot more slow-moving and abstract than flight simulators. They also involve more guess work. Perhaps we could help you more if you described a specific thing you didn't understand, or a particular problem you are having. We could expand from there. Have you tried occaisionally turning "Show Truth" on so that you can check what's going on against what you thought was going on, and building confidence that way?

My experience has been that a lot of missions are quite poorly designed. They're so poorly put together that you really can't learn much on them.

I also think it's hard sometimes to explain naval tactics without drawing pictures, but that's just me...

Dr.Sid · 12-05-06, 05:05 AM

Yeah .. especially TMA without pictures is impossible

I figured most things out with help of the mission editor. I edited one civilian ship in 5nm distance and I tracked it. It's all much easier when they don't shoot back.

I did the same when I was unable to shoot down bombers in IL2 .. I just setup some friendlies and practiced.

Kazuaki Shimazaki II · 12-05-06, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sid

I did the same when I was unable to shoot down bombers in IL2 .. I just setup some friendlies and practiced.

You are better than me at fighter games, then. When I actually had Flanker 2.5 installed on my laptop, I tried to shoot down the tanker that I was supposed to practice refuelling from (actually refuelling from it is so far over my head its not worth trying). I managed to burn up 150 rounds of cannon and the darn tanker didn't go down.

But the real thing that made me uninstall it, FYI, was a joystick issue. The joystick is fine, until you engage the autopilot (which you'd think is a great help to a lousy pilot like me). If the plane's speed wasn't just right, the nose won't be level and the elevators won't be in a neutral position. For example, say my elevators are 5 degrees up to maintain level flight. When I disengage my autopilot, the "center" position of my joystick equates to this 5 degree up angle, forcing me to push the stick forward just to keep the elevators neutral. Needless to say, any chance of realistic control goes after that.

Officerpuppy · 12-05-06, 09:53 PM

It took me years to master 688i

So playing DW is almost like starting over again,
but don't give up, DW is a great game once you get the hang of it.

And speaking of flying, prior to getting a joystick I used to fly a 747 on Microsoft flight sim 98? with a mouse and keyboard! lol. I think I tried to take one off an aircraft carrier once, but I cant remember if I ever pulled it off at least once.

swimsalot · 12-07-06, 02:56 AM

I've had F4-Allied Force for maybe a month now, and it seems way more difficult to learn than the DW platforms. If you have mastered the ability to fly the F16, while accurately using the different AA/AG radar modes, and launching a succesful attack at the proper TOT, without getting shot down by SAM or other fighters, I think you can master DW. Try to get with someone on a Voice system (ie Teamspeak) to walk you through the stations- it's alot easier to have someone verbally coach you through something than just reading it in a book.

Micksp · 12-07-06, 04:40 AM

Learning and mastering the DW is step by step process. First of, make your choice of platform and master it. The submarines have differences, so take one of them and start learning. Here are few links to some useful guides:

http://www.subguru.com/missions/SCHQ_TACMAN_PDF.zip

http://www.subguru.com/BluebookR20.zip

http://www.subguru.com/DW_missions/TMA.zip

http://www.tpub.com/content/combat/14308/css/14308_169.htm

http://www.haptonstahl.org/ppt/tma_files/frame.htm

http://www.subguru.com/DW_missions/FFG_Guide.pdf

http://www.subguru.com/DW_missions/P3_Operational_Manual.pdf

The last two are for FFG-7 and P3-C Orion. About subs you should master the sonar first. He is your primary sensor. Start with BB, check for any contacts and mark them. If you can hear them, they are on the surface and will be strongest. Go to NB sonar screen and try to get a classification. If you have a doubts about the contact class go to snorkel depth and raise the ESM, if ships radars are turned on you will get their classification and bearing. Also, the DEMON can help you to determine the contact category. By determining the number of blades on a contact’s propeller, listening to the sounds it emits and observing the contact’s behavior you can make an educated guess as to the category of the contact.

Use the following criteria to help categorize the selected contact:

Merchant Vessels/Tankers: Typically three or four blades; noisy; often maintains predictable course.
Warships: Typically four or five-bladed propellers; quieter, smoother sound than merchant ships; possibly unpredictable course changes.
Submarines: Five, six or seven-bladed propellers; very quiet when submerged and at low speed; unpredictable course changes.
Fishing Vessels/Trawlers/Pleasure Craft: Three- or four-bladed propellers; noisy; erratic courses and speeds, frequently stopping and starting.

Finding the submarines is much harder. The primary station where you must look for them is the NB. Switch to 300 Hz frequency and watch for the first line. They will be 50 Hz for the Russian subs and 60 Hz for USA subs. Don’t expect strong line, they are faint in most cases, so adjust your monitor. In NB you always have two contacts per target. One of them is a mirror. Maneuver left or right your sub and one of the contacts will start to move. That is the mirror and you can ignore him and track another one. Check the SSP and change your depth if necessary. You can launch UUV, which will help you to estimate the contacts range and position and also is helpful in tracking incoming torpedoes…

Here is more staff, just ask away about something concrete.

Molon Labe · 12-07-06, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimsalot

I've had F4-Allied Force for maybe a month now, and it seems way more difficult to learn than the DW platforms. If you have mastered the ability to fly the F16, while accurately using the different AA/AG radar modes, and launching a succesful attack at the proper TOT, without getting shot down by SAM or other fighters, I think you can master DW. Try to get with someone on a Voice system (ie Teamspeak) to walk you through the stations- it's alot easier to have someone verbally coach you through something than just reading it in a book.

Agreed. F4 was a lot harder to learn, at least for me. Hell, I've been flying since July, and I'm still learning new systems.

There's a bit of a difference though. The stuff you need to learn in F4 is mostly technical, and the trick is that you need to be able to recall it quickly while under pressure. DW is more about understanding the environment and being cognicant of what you know vs. what you don't. It's more of a puzzle than an exercise in memorization.

Enigma · 12-08-06, 02:48 PM

Thanks guys, lots of good stuff here....

Im plugging away tryin to learn everything onboard the LA class....Im sure ill be back with questions

Driftwood · 12-09-06, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimsalot

I've had F4-Allied Force for maybe a month now, and it seems way more difficult to learn than the DW platforms. If you have mastered the ability to fly the F16, while accurately using the different AA/AG radar modes, and launching a succesful attack at the proper TOT, without getting shot down by SAM or other fighters, I think you can master DW. Try to get with someone on a Voice system (ie Teamspeak) to walk you through the stations- it's alot easier to have someone verbally coach you through something than just reading it in a book.

Agreed. F4 was a lot harder to learn, at least for me. Hell, I've been flying since July, and I'm still learning new systems.

There's a bit of a difference though. The stuff you need to learn in F4 is mostly technical, and the trick is that you need to be able to recall it quickly while under pressure. DW is more about understanding the environment and being cognicant of what you know vs. what you don't. It's more of a puzzle than an exercise in memorization.

Excellent points made by two of the best "in the business!" Hang in there Enigma! DW is a great game and worth the effort! I've tried Falcon 4 AF and it's a great game too but I found out REAL quick that I'm a much better sub driver than I am an Airdale. If you can handle F4AF you can certainly handle DW.

goldorak · 12-09-06, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Driftwood

Excellent points made by two of the best "in the business!" Hang in there Enigma! DW is a great game and worth the effort! I've tried Falcon 4 AF and it's a great game too but I found out REAL quick that I'm a much better sub driver than I am an Airdale. If you can handle F4AF you can certainly handle DW.

Well to be honest F4 AF is much simpler conceptually speaking than Dw.
And I used to play F4 AF at 99% realism (except air refueling

), and I had a very hard time figuring out DW.
Mostly because of the TMA.
Its no small feat to interpret correctly tma information and have a good idea of whats going on the surface/underwater.
Now I play will all autocrew off, but it took me more than 1 year to come to this point.
Falcon 4 AF I has mastered it in less than one month.

Enigma · 12-09-06, 01:59 PM

The difference is, Im a real worl pilot, and a fighter plane nut, not when I jumped into AF 4.0, I knew about alot of the systems, what they do, what the purpose was, etc...So I had a head start, and just needed to learn how to utilize them properly. some of the stations in DW might as well be alien technology to me...

Im working on it.

12-04-06, 03:10 PM	#1
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Last Chance at my Skipper stripes... Ive tried with DW. I reeeally have. And I just dont "get it". I havent figured out if I dont know enough about whats going on, or if I just dont like the game that much. (im thinking its the former.) But ive had DW for almost a year now I suppose, and I still find myself completely hopeless at it. Ive tried to learn all the stations and equipment, but so far with minimal success. Sure, ive won a few missions, had some fun moments of glory, but the vast majority of time has been spent wondering what the hell is going on, how to target and kill an enemy, and what the hell that DEMON display is telling me. Now, I can safely and professionally fly an airplane in the real world. I have figured out all the sophisticated equipment in "Lock on" and "Falcon 4.0" that allows me to pinpoint a small target with a laser and guide a AGM-65 there, and destroy it, but to this day, DW evades me, terribly. Im going to cram the books, use this forum, and use tutorials, and take one last shot at figuring this game out. Either I figure it out and get my skipper stripes, or I fail, and the game goes on ebay. __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

12-04-06, 03:30 PM	#2
DAB Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 263 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Good luck with all of that. I hope you figure out what the sticking point is because the games worth the effort. And keep posting on the forum DAB. PS. DEMON is telling you the speed of your target. Once you've worked out (and sometimes it takes an educated guess) what the identity of the platform is on the Narrowband sonar system, you look it up on the USNI Reference and find the T.P.K (turns per knot) figure which is usually near the top of the platform description. On Demon on the 688i, where it says Turns Per Knot, enter the figure you got from the USNI reference and then move the curser on the display to the middle of the first vertical stripe on the left. The figure in the bottom right then gives you the speed of the platform in knots. If you then go to TMA you can put in the speed in knots for the platform as one of the figures you need for a firing solution and lock that part of the solution (push the button next to knots on TMA). That makes it easier to figure out an accurate firing solution __________________ ...snorting / snorkelling after several years of silent running.

12-07-06, 02:56 AM	#9
swimsalot Helmsman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, wa usa Posts: 102 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I've had F4-Allied Force for maybe a month now, and it seems way more difficult to learn than the DW platforms. If you have mastered the ability to fly the F16, while accurately using the different AA/AG radar modes, and launching a succesful attack at the proper TOT, without getting shot down by SAM or other fighters, I think you can master DW. Try to get with someone on a Voice system (ie Teamspeak) to walk you through the stations- it's alot easier to have someone verbally coach you through something than just reading it in a book. __________________ Swimsalot AW2 (AW\NAC)

12-08-06, 02:48 PM	#12
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Thanks guys, lots of good stuff here.... Im plugging away tryin to learn everything onboard the LA class....Im sure ill be back with questions __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

12-09-06, 01:59 PM	#15
Enigma The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: At comms depth, obviously. Posts: 1,476 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	The difference is, Im a real worl pilot, and a fighter plane nut, not when I jumped into AF 4.0, I knew about alot of the systems, what they do, what the purpose was, etc...So I had a head start, and just needed to learn how to utilize them properly. some of the stations in DW might as well be alien technology to me... Im working on it. __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." -Mark Twain

12-04-06, 03:33 PM	#3
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Play with 'show truth' on and just blast them away

12-04-06, 05:23 PM	#4
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I might suggest joining a virtual navy that has a good training department or people who know their stuff to mentor you.

12-05-06, 05:05 AM	#6
Dr.Sid The Old Man Join Date: May 2005 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 1,458 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Yeah .. especially TMA without pictures is impossible I figured most things out with help of the mission editor. I edited one civilian ship in 5nm distance and I tracked it. It's all much easier when they don't shoot back. I did the same when I was unable to shoot down bombers in IL2 .. I just setup some friendlies and practiced.

12-05-06, 09:53 PM	#8
Officerpuppy Engineer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mansfield, TX Posts: 213 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It took me years to master 688i So playing DW is almost like starting over again, but don't give up, DW is a great game once you get the hang of it. And speaking of flying, prior to getting a joystick I used to fly a 747 on Microsoft flight sim 98? with a mouse and keyboard! lol. I think I tried to take one off an aircraft carrier once, but I cant remember if I ever pulled it off at least once.

12-07-06, 04:40 AM	#10
Micksp Sailor man Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Burgas, Bulgaria Posts: 50 Downloads: 31 Uploads: 0	Learning and mastering the DW is step by step process. First of, make your choice of platform and master it. The submarines have differences, so take one of them and start learning. Here are few links to some useful guides: http://www.subguru.com/missions/SCHQ_TACMAN_PDF.zip http://www.subguru.com/BluebookR20.zip http://www.subguru.com/DW_missions/TMA.zip http://www.tpub.com/content/combat/14308/css/14308_169.htm http://www.haptonstahl.org/ppt/tma_files/frame.htm http://www.subguru.com/DW_missions/FFG_Guide.pdf http://www.subguru.com/DW_missions/P3_Operational_Manual.pdf The last two are for FFG-7 and P3-C Orion. About subs you should master the sonar first. He is your primary sensor. Start with BB, check for any contacts and mark them. If you can hear them, they are on the surface and will be strongest. Go to NB sonar screen and try to get a classification. If you have a doubts about the contact class go to snorkel depth and raise the ESM, if ships radars are turned on you will get their classification and bearing. Also, the DEMON can help you to determine the contact category. By determining the number of blades on a contact’s propeller, listening to the sounds it emits and observing the contact’s behavior you can make an educated guess as to the category of the contact. Use the following criteria to help categorize the selected contact: Merchant Vessels/Tankers: Typically three or four blades; noisy; often maintains predictable course. Warships: Typically four or five-bladed propellers; quieter, smoother sound than merchant ships; possibly unpredictable course changes. Submarines: Five, six or seven-bladed propellers; very quiet when submerged and at low speed; unpredictable course changes. Fishing Vessels/Trawlers/Pleasure Craft: Three- or four-bladed propellers; noisy; erratic courses and speeds, frequently stopping and starting. Finding the submarines is much harder. The primary station where you must look for them is the NB. Switch to 300 Hz frequency and watch for the first line. They will be 50 Hz for the Russian subs and 60 Hz for USA subs. Don’t expect strong line, they are faint in most cases, so adjust your monitor. In NB you always have two contacts per target. One of them is a mirror. Maneuver left or right your sub and one of the contacts will start to move. That is the mirror and you can ignore him and track another one. Check the SSP and change your depth if necessary. You can launch UUV, which will help you to estimate the contacts range and position and also is helpful in tracking incoming torpedoes… Here is more staff, just ask away about something concrete.