Attack on Pearl harbour?? Do you think it will be possible for us to prevent it??

JU_88 · 10-03-06, 04:15 AM

The devs have hinted that you may be able to start the SHIV campaign prior to Pearl harbour, so this depends how they handle the attack on Pearl..
If they just spawn a bunch of IJN planes in the area to trash the place, then ok nothing the player can do....

But- if they actually have the carriers approach the area and launch/spwan the attacking planes from them, the player maybe able to (with unrealistic knowledge for the time) intercept and sink the CVs, preventing the attack pearl altogther (or cripple it badly) :hmm: I know its gamey but its still its fun right?

Depends how realisticly the devs script it in, but first thing Im gonna do when get SHIV is hunt for those carriers, even if i dont stop Pearl form happening, i might get me some nice (if slightly dishonest) tonnage to start my career. Oh and I would hope command will reward me with somthing better than- "keep up the good work!"

Drebbel · 10-03-06, 05:11 AM

I don't thiunk they will go for alternate history strory lines.

I also think there is no need within the community for that

DanCanovas · 10-03-06, 05:14 AM

no there is no chance of averting pearl habour.

JU_88 · 10-03-06, 05:26 AM

Its a dynamic campaign, this would have no repercusions on the story, (so yes- no alternate story line)
But we can start patrolling before pearl harobor takes place, pearl was attacked by carrier launched planes,
SO in theory so long as the carriers are physically where they should be - (and not some kind of invisible entity) we can attack them, but i doubt this will have an effect on ta scripted pearl harbour attack.

I should have been more clear, I ment prevent the attack in the campaign so that physically less planes can take part in the attack, the story would be uneffected of course. Much like the way you can sink the task force that sinks the Bismark in SH3, if youre in the right place at the right time. but the Bismark is still destroyed regardless in the storyline.

Still, im sure we will be able to attack the taskforce and sink some CVs, though it probably wount effect pearl, this would be too much work for the devs.

HunterICX · 10-03-06, 06:08 AM

in Theory, they didnt know where the Cariers where going and where they would strike on. They noticed it after the first bomb striked an Ship of Pearl harbour. So no...I think the Campaign will start about a couple of hours before the IJN planes will strike. so you cant do nothing against it. the devs probally wont allow you to spot the cariers at all. its too late

Torplexed · 10-03-06, 07:14 AM

Given the speed of the Japanese task force if you start at Pearl Harbour you don't have a prayer of catching up with them before they begin their departure from the area. The Japanese launch point was 230 miles north of Oahu. The average ships speed in the task force was 30 knots, a mathematical impossibility to catch up with.

Most US subs in the area probably would have had more to fear from trigger-happy friendly forces that day even if they had been able to pursue the Japanese.

Oberon · 10-03-06, 07:45 AM

No...no...no...everyone knows that the only way to even come close to preventing Pearl Harbour is to take a Nimitz class carrier and teleport it back in time from 1980 to the day before Pearl Harbour was attacked!

On a more serious note, I think the best way to represent Pearl would be to spawn the planes in, rather than spawn in the entire Jap fleet, as Torplexed pointed out, they were hauling ass, and you've have to know exactly where to find them to stand a chance...and with that knowledge, and the ability to change time...it'd be like being Kirk Douglas

I've read people on SHIII escorting the Bismarck all the way back to Germany whilst receiving reports that the Bismarck had been sunk and requires the crew rescuing. It'd be that kind of scenario.

Safe-Keeper · 10-03-06, 08:18 AM

Quote:

No...no...no...everyone knows that the only way to even come close to preventing Pearl Harbour is to take a Nimitz class carrier and teleport it back in time from 1980 to the day before Pearl Harbour was attacked!

Awesome movie

.

Can we avert Pearl Harbour? I hope not. No alternative story-lines for me, thank you.

Torplexed · 10-03-06, 09:25 PM

Yah! Send in Kirk Douglas to blast the Japs. Leave Martin Sheen behind in 1941 while yer at it.

Not to completely throw a wet blanket on JU_88's idea maybe it might be possible to set up a situation such as this in the scenario editor. Depends on how many Japanese ships the developers give us. Given the Japanese love for cruiser-based floatplanes an approach should be difficult.

However, in reality the first US sub (Gudgeon) didn't depart Pearl Harbour for a war patrol until December 11th. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the historical benchmark the developers use.

Payoff · 10-04-06, 04:15 AM

Torplexed

Quote:

Leave Martin Sheen behind in 1941 while yer at it.

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Sailor Steve · 10-04-06, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

However, in reality the first US sub (Gudgeon) didn't depart Pearl Harbour for a war patrol until December 11th. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the historical benchmark the developers use.

I thought there were boats on defensive patrols around Hawaii at the time. I guess that's what I get for thinkin'.

Torplexed · 10-04-06, 07:22 PM

You are correct in that there were boats in the waters around Oahu on December 7th Sailor Steve, but not really on a war footing. Pompano, Pollack, and Plunger were arriving from overhaul at Mare Island on the West Coast. Gudgeon was training at Lahaina Roads. Thresher was returning from Midway Island and was driven down numerous times by friendly destroyers, bombed by the US Army Air Corps and was feeling kinda unloved by the time she made Pearl Harbour. (Wonder if that sort of fratricide will be in the sim?) :hmm:

bookworm_020 · 10-04-06, 08:59 PM

American Subs did play a part in the Pearl Harbour attack. The crews did man the flak guns and succeed in shooting down a couple of the attacking bombers.

A great quote was made to a sub captain just before he left to go on patrol just after the attack (I'll get the names and exact quote) "Your the only offensive force we have left, so Damm it, Don't get sunk trying to win the war in an afternoon."

Also the new Pacific commander was sworen in on the deck of a submarine, as all other ships were damaged, or unavaible.

Japanese sub made a effot as well, 5 miget subs tried to get into pearl before the attack, but were spotted and were either sunk or scuttled. 1 crewman suvived, so becoming the first Japanese POW of World War 2

Hydra · 10-06-06, 07:11 PM

Be careful of what you wish for. If you succeed in sinking the Japanese carriers before the attack on Pearl, you're program code is erased and you're left twiddling your thumbs. You could always transfer to the Atlantic theater, but they haven't made SH IV and 1/2 yet!

Steeltrap · 10-17-06, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torplexed

You are correct in that there were boats in the waters around Oahu on December 7th Sailor Steve, but not really on a war footing. Pompano, Pollack, and Plunger were arriving from overhaul at Mare Island on the West Coast. Gudgeon was training at Lahaina Roads. Thresher was returning from Midway Island and was driven down numerous times by friendly destroyers, bombed by the US Army Air Corps and was feeling kinda unloved by the time she made Pearl Harbour. (Wonder if that sort of fratricide will be in the sim?) :hmm:

NO simulation of the armed forces of the USA is complete without fratricide!!! They have SUCH a talent for it!! Indeed, there are more recent examples where they've spread the 'brotherly love' to their unfortunate allies - witness the fate of Brit APCs in first Gulf War. As a side note, I've read an account of the inquiry into that incident as writen by Geoffrey Robertson - highly accomplished QC/Judge - and it's pretty disgusting.

Actually, the inquiry into the sinking of the USS Frank E Evans by the Australian crrier HMAS Melbourne was pretty crooked, too - they hung the skipper of the Melbourne out to dry despite the official finding being "no case to answer" and it clearly being the fault of the Evans. What is the yanks have about acknowledging their screw-ups? They happen, we're human. Lying about it doesn't do much to help, or present yourself in a very flattering light....

10-03-06, 04:15 AM	#1
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Attack on Pearl harbour?? Do you think it will be possible for us to prevent it?? The devs have hinted that you may be able to start the SHIV campaign prior to Pearl harbour, so this depends how they handle the attack on Pearl.. If they just spawn a bunch of IJN planes in the area to trash the place, then ok nothing the player can do.... But- if they actually have the carriers approach the area and launch/spwan the attacking planes from them, the player maybe able to (with unrealistic knowledge for the time) intercept and sink the CVs, preventing the attack pearl altogther (or cripple it badly) :hmm: I know its gamey but its still its fun right? Depends how realisticly the devs script it in, but first thing Im gonna do when get SHIV is hunt for those carriers, even if i dont stop Pearl form happening, i might get me some nice (if slightly dishonest) tonnage to start my career. Oh and I would hope command will reward me with somthing better than- "keep up the good work!" Last edited by JU_88; 10-03-06 at 04:25 AM.

10-03-06, 05:11 AM	#2
Drebbel Dutch Sea Lord Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Almost at periscope death ! Posts: 1,665 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I don't thiunk they will go for alternate history strory lines. I also think there is no need within the community for that __________________ - The Floggings Will Continue Until Moral Improves -

10-03-06, 05:14 AM	#3
DanCanovas Grey Wolf Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 778 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	no there is no chance of averting pearl habour. __________________

10-03-06, 05:26 AM	#4
JU_88 Silent Hunter Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: UK Posts: 3,803 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Its a dynamic campaign, this would have no repercusions on the story, (so yes- no alternate story line) But we can start patrolling before pearl harobor takes place, pearl was attacked by carrier launched planes, SO in theory so long as the carriers are physically where they should be - (and not some kind of invisible entity) we can attack them, but i doubt this will have an effect on ta scripted pearl harbour attack. I should have been more clear, I ment prevent the attack in the campaign so that physically less planes can take part in the attack, the story would be uneffected of course. Much like the way you can sink the task force that sinks the Bismark in SH3, if youre in the right place at the right time. but the Bismark is still destroyed regardless in the storyline. Still, im sure we will be able to attack the taskforce and sink some CVs, though it probably wount effect pearl, this would be too much work for the devs. Last edited by JU_88; 10-03-06 at 05:36 AM.

10-03-06, 06:08 AM	#5
HunterICX Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2006 Location: Malaga, España Posts: 10,750 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	in Theory, they didnt know where the Cariers where going and where they would strike on. They noticed it after the first bomb striked an Ship of Pearl harbour. So no...I think the Campaign will start about a couple of hours before the IJN planes will strike. so you cant do nothing against it. the devs probally wont allow you to spot the cariers at all. its too late __________________

10-03-06, 07:14 AM	#6
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Given the speed of the Japanese task force if you start at Pearl Harbour you don't have a prayer of catching up with them before they begin their departure from the area. The Japanese launch point was 230 miles north of Oahu. The average ships speed in the task force was 30 knots, a mathematical impossibility to catch up with. Most US subs in the area probably would have had more to fear from trigger-happy friendly forces that day even if they had been able to pursue the Japanese. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

10-03-06, 07:45 AM	#7
Oberon Lucky Jack Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25,976 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 20	No...no...no...everyone knows that the only way to even come close to preventing Pearl Harbour is to take a Nimitz class carrier and teleport it back in time from 1980 to the day before Pearl Harbour was attacked! On a more serious note, I think the best way to represent Pearl would be to spawn the planes in, rather than spawn in the entire Jap fleet, as Torplexed pointed out, they were hauling ass, and you've have to know exactly where to find them to stand a chance...and with that knowledge, and the ability to change time...it'd be like being Kirk Douglas I've read people on SHIII escorting the Bismarck all the way back to Germany whilst receiving reports that the Bismarck had been sunk and requires the crew rescuing. It'd be that kind of scenario.

10-03-06, 09:25 PM	#9
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Yah! Send in Kirk Douglas to blast the Japs. Leave Martin Sheen behind in 1941 while yer at it. Not to completely throw a wet blanket on JU_88's idea maybe it might be possible to set up a situation such as this in the scenario editor. Depends on how many Japanese ships the developers give us. Given the Japanese love for cruiser-based floatplanes an approach should be difficult. However, in reality the first US sub (Gudgeon) didn't depart Pearl Harbour for a war patrol until December 11th. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the historical benchmark the developers use. __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

10-04-06, 07:22 PM	#12
Torplexed Let's Sink Sumptin' ! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 5,823 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	You are correct in that there were boats in the waters around Oahu on December 7th Sailor Steve, but not really on a war footing. Pompano, Pollack, and Plunger were arriving from overhaul at Mare Island on the West Coast. Gudgeon was training at Lahaina Roads. Thresher was returning from Midway Island and was driven down numerous times by friendly destroyers, bombed by the US Army Air Corps and was feeling kinda unloved by the time she made Pearl Harbour. (Wonder if that sort of fratricide will be in the sim?) :hmm: __________________ --Mobilis in Mobili--

10-04-06, 08:59 PM	#13
bookworm_020 Navy Seal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Sinking ships off the Australian coast Posts: 5,966 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	American Subs did play a part in the Pearl Harbour attack. The crews did man the flak guns and succeed in shooting down a couple of the attacking bombers. A great quote was made to a sub captain just before he left to go on patrol just after the attack (I'll get the names and exact quote) "Your the only offensive force we have left, so Damm it, Don't get sunk trying to win the war in an afternoon." Also the new Pacific commander was sworen in on the deck of a submarine, as all other ships were damaged, or unavaible. Japanese sub made a effot as well, 5 miget subs tried to get into pearl before the attack, but were spotted and were either sunk or scuttled. 1 crewman suvived, so becoming the first Japanese POW of World War 2 __________________ "There is always one person in any organization who knows whats going on, That person must be fired"

10-06-06, 07:11 PM	#14
Hydra Mate Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Unknown ... until it's too late! Posts: 60 Downloads: 149 Uploads: 0	Be careful of what you wish for. If you succeed in sinking the Japanese carriers before the attack on Pearl, you're program code is erased and you're left twiddling your thumbs. You could always transfer to the Atlantic theater, but they haven't made SH IV and 1/2 yet! __________________ I am. Therefore, I sink.