Submarine speed and journalists...

Wim Libaers · 09-09-06, 05:01 PM

From the Subsim front page...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4174001.html

Like all attack subs, the Texas will carry torpedoes, mines and vertically launched Tomahawk cruise missiles. Its stated speed is a vague "in excess of 25 knots," though it is widely known that attack subs can travel underwater at twice that speed.

Really? :hmm:

(of course, not ALL attack subs carry vertically launched missiles either)

Sub Sailor · 09-12-06, 10:26 AM

The United States Navy Sub Force has always, since I have been in, used greater than 25 knots and greater than 400 feet. Even though you Can pick up many publications that provide fairly accurate figures.It only recently that we started putting hull numbers on, used to be we had temporary ones we would hang in home port.Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

Henson · 09-12-06, 11:46 AM

I think his contention is with the statement that it is 'widely known' that submarines go 'twice that speed' (in this case, 50 kts

).

Kapitan · 09-12-06, 12:09 PM

I wouldnt say a submarine could go that fast but it can the al'fa class hit 45 knots what would it reach should the al'fa be running at flank on an E blow?

About 70 or maybe 80 knots

Sub Sailor · 09-12-06, 12:50 PM

I understood his statement perfectly, I am answering with the well known fact that the US Sub Force is very close to the vest in what it puts out publicly, and the Navy in general is. We only admitted to the SEALS after they were used in an old comic strip.
Why, well for the Sub Force it stems from WWII, and still lingers on. To this day I have never heard of a Journalist being allowed in the Engineering spaces. It is just part of our "corporate image" I guess.
I really don't know why some people who post here feel the need to explain others post.
Hensen What US Sub goes 50 Knots? To the best of my knowledge the Alfa went "around" 45 knots, and that was billed as the world's fastest sub.

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

Pingjockey · 09-12-06, 02:12 PM

MMCM,
Actually, the Papa was thought to be faster than the alfa. But lets be real here. In a situation when you have to go that fast your already dead. Most torpedos can and will catch you even if you have a good head start and short to medium ranges.....

And in my 12 yrs in the navy I have never seen anyone from the media in the engineroom as well.

STS1(SS) Michael T Granito
USS Texas SSN-775

Sub Sailor · 09-12-06, 02:58 PM

Pingjockey;
I got to listen to an Alfa once, I just happen to be in the area of the Sonar Shack, and the Alfa was turning and burning, even my old MM ears could hear it. It was fast but noisey. I agree with you even if they would make subs faster they would just improve torpedoes, best not get detected.
Did they ever put the PAPA into production?
We had those Navy League cruises, and I know they did not go aft, that was Rickover's thing and I never knew it to be violated. I know Clancy in his book Submarine alludes to the fact you cannot go aft.
It blew me a way when Blind Man's Bluff came out, we signed papers every patrol we would not talk about anything we did, and then I read it in a book. Do you have any idea how many free drinks that would have brought in LOL.

Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

Kapitan · 09-12-06, 03:13 PM

Papa class only one unit was ever made K222/ K162

SeaQueen · 09-12-06, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sub Sailor

The United States Navy Sub Force has always, since I have been in, used greater than 25 knots and greater than 400 feet. Even though you Can pick up many publications that provide fairly accurate figures.It only recently that we started putting hull numbers on, used to be we had temporary ones we would hang in home port.Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

SSBNs still do that. When I was a rider on an FFG, we came across one running on the surface and he wouldn't even refer to himself on the radio as a warship.

swimsalot · 09-12-06, 10:48 PM

Not sure about what sub it was, but when I was active duty, we were sent on a SAR mission in the Pacific for a large trawler with fire damage and inuries. Apparently there was a sub very close to the ship, they wouldn't assist due to "mission prioritites". Since we were at peace time, I was surprised. Now that I know a little more about sub ops, I guess I'm not surprised. Would a sub typically assist a ship in distress, assuming they knew about it? (not sure how this sub knew, but I guess they did, as some of the coordinates were relayed to the carrier form the sub).

Henson · 09-12-06, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kapitan

About 70 or maybe 80 knots

Not...

Henson · 09-12-06, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimsalot

Not sure about what sub it was, but when I was active duty, we were sent on a SAR mission in the Pacific for a large trawler with fire damage and inuries. Apparently there was a sub very close to the ship, they wouldn't assist due to "mission prioritites". Since we were at peace time, I was surprised. Now that I know a little more about sub ops, I guess I'm not surprised. Would a sub typically assist a ship in distress, assuming they knew about it? (not sure how this sub knew, but I guess they did, as some of the coordinates were relayed to the carrier form the sub).

If it is possible we technically should try, but it is not always possible/safe to do so, and an SSBN is probably going to ask for someone else to do it regardless.

We don't have any boats we can put over to transfer personnel or materials, and as big as we are we can't exactly pull alongside another vessel (especially a damaged one). After the USS Cole incident we would be pretty stupid to do so as well. It's just not practical for us to rush to help someone who is merely broken. If they're truly in distress and sinking, that is little different, but even then the most we would be able to do is fish people out of the water. No RHIB means we're not much help.

Bill Nichols · 09-13-06, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sub Sailor

The United States Navy Sub Force has always, since I have been in, used greater than 25 knots and greater than 400 feet. Even though you Can pick up many publications that provide fairly accurate figures.It only recently that we started putting hull numbers on, used to be we had temporary ones we would hang in home port.Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

Used to be, all one could say in unclassified forums is "faster than 20 knots, deeper than 400 feet." We used to joke on my boat (USS Nautilus) that they needed to add the word "barely".

Recently the Navy revised the guidance to 800 feet and 25 knots. But everyone knows from reading the newspapers that subs actually can go twice as deep and twice as fast.

sonar732 · 09-14-06, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henson

If it is possible we technically should try, but it is not always possible/safe to do so, and an SSBN is probably going to ask for someone else to do it regardless.

A no-brainer in our book!

Depending on where our "patrol" area is, we'll dispatch the Coast Guard or some other naval vessel..whether civi or military.

swimsalot · 09-19-06, 03:46 PM

Didn't know subs don't have any boats to launch; so they just have rafts for the crew? I understand the reasons why a sub wouldn't want to surface and lend assistance, just wasn't sure if they would take thos risks to save lives. Must be a tough call for a skipper to make. Thanks for the info guys.

09-09-06, 05:01 PM	#1
Wim Libaers Samurai Navy Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Flanders Posts: 569 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Submarine speed and journalists... From the Subsim front page... http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4174001.html Like all attack subs, the Texas will carry torpedoes, mines and vertically launched Tomahawk cruise missiles. Its stated speed is a vague "in excess of 25 knots," though it is widely known that attack subs can travel underwater at twice that speed. Really? :hmm: (of course, not ALL attack subs carry vertically launched missiles either)

09-12-06, 10:26 AM	#2
Sub Sailor Commander Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Orofino, Idaho Posts: 443 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	we have always been that way. The United States Navy Sub Force has always, since I have been in, used greater than 25 knots and greater than 400 feet. Even though you Can pick up many publications that provide fairly accurate figures.It only recently that we started putting hull numbers on, used to be we had temporary ones we would hang in home port.Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

09-12-06, 12:09 PM	#4
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	I wouldnt say a submarine could go that fast but it can the al'fa class hit 45 knots what would it reach should the al'fa be running at flank on an E blow? About 70 or maybe 80 knots __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

09-12-06, 12:50 PM	#5
Sub Sailor Commander Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Orofino, Idaho Posts: 443 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	That was why I posted the way I did I understood his statement perfectly, I am answering with the well known fact that the US Sub Force is very close to the vest in what it puts out publicly, and the Navy in general is. We only admitted to the SEALS after they were used in an old comic strip. Why, well for the Sub Force it stems from WWII, and still lingers on. To this day I have never heard of a Journalist being allowed in the Engineering spaces. It is just part of our "corporate image" I guess. I really don't know why some people who post here feel the need to explain others post. Hensen What US Sub goes 50 Knots? To the best of my knowledge the Alfa went "around" 45 knots, and that was billed as the world's fastest sub. Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

09-12-06, 02:58 PM	#7
Sub Sailor Commander Join Date: Sep 1999 Location: Orofino, Idaho Posts: 443 Downloads: 66 Uploads: 0	Alfa Pingjockey; I got to listen to an Alfa once, I just happen to be in the area of the Sonar Shack, and the Alfa was turning and burning, even my old MM ears could hear it. It was fast but noisey. I agree with you even if they would make subs faster they would just improve torpedoes, best not get detected. Did they ever put the PAPA into production? We had those Navy League cruises, and I know they did not go aft, that was Rickover's thing and I never knew it to be violated. I know Clancy in his book Submarine alludes to the fact you cannot go aft. It blew me a way when Blind Man's Bluff came out, we signed papers every patrol we would not talk about anything we did, and then I read it in a book. Do you have any idea how many free drinks that would have brought in LOL. Ron Banks MMCM(SS), USN(Ret)

09-12-06, 11:46 AM	#3
Henson Planesman Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 185 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	I think his contention is with the statement that it is 'widely known' that submarines go 'twice that speed' (in this case, 50 kts ).

09-12-06, 02:12 PM	#6
Pingjockey Sailor man Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Sorento, IL Posts: 48 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	MMCM, Actually, the Papa was thought to be faster than the alfa. But lets be real here. In a situation when you have to go that fast your already dead. Most torpedos can and will catch you even if you have a good head start and short to medium ranges..... And in my 12 yrs in the navy I have never seen anyone from the media in the engineroom as well. STS1(SS) Michael T Granito USS Texas SSN-775

09-12-06, 03:13 PM	#8
Kapitan Sub Test Pilot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK + Canada Posts: 7,130 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 7	Papa class only one unit was ever made K222/ K162 __________________ DONT FORGET if you like a post to nominate it by using the blue diamond Find out about Museum Ships here: https://www.museumships.us/ Flickr for all my pictures: https://www.flickr.com/photos/131313936@N03/ Navy general board articles: https://www.navygeneralboard.com/author/aegis/

09-12-06, 10:48 PM	#10
swimsalot Helmsman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, wa usa Posts: 102 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Not sure about what sub it was, but when I was active duty, we were sent on a SAR mission in the Pacific for a large trawler with fire damage and inuries. Apparently there was a sub very close to the ship, they wouldn't assist due to "mission prioritites". Since we were at peace time, I was surprised. Now that I know a little more about sub ops, I guess I'm not surprised. Would a sub typically assist a ship in distress, assuming they knew about it? (not sure how this sub knew, but I guess they did, as some of the coordinates were relayed to the carrier form the sub). __________________ Swimsalot AW2 (AW\NAC)

09-19-06, 03:46 PM	#15
swimsalot Helmsman Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Seattle, wa usa Posts: 102 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Didn't know subs don't have any boats to launch; so they just have rafts for the crew? I understand the reasons why a sub wouldn't want to surface and lend assistance, just wasn't sure if they would take thos risks to save lives. Must be a tough call for a skipper to make. Thanks for the info guys. __________________ Swimsalot AW2 (AW\NAC)