Tougher laws don't make me laugh

STEED · 09-10-06, 05:17 PM

Five years for killing someone really? they will be out in two and half years, that is not justice for those who have lost members of there family.

Quote:

British drivers who kill face tougher laws

Big News Network.com
Sunday 10th September, 2006 (UPI)

British authorities in London are cracking down on drivers whose roadway actions result in the death of another.

Beginning next July, prosecutors can charge drivers who kill someone with causing death by careless driving, which carries a maximum five-year prison term, The (London) Observer said. Motorists who cause death while talking on a cell phone or are otherwise inattentive would face jail time under the new law.

Ken Macdonald QC (queen's counsel), the director of Public Prosecutions, in an interview with The Observer, said lenient punishments for such highway fatalities undermine public confidence in the criminal justice system. Macdonald issued a directive to the 3,000 prosecutors in England and Wales, ordering that the charge must fit the crime when a motorist kills someone, The Observer said.

Currently, drivers who cause the death of another are often charged with careless driving, punishable by a fine, the newspaper said.

More than 3,500 people are killed each year on British roads, but less than one in 10 motorists involved is convicted of causing death by dangerous driving, The Observer said.

http://www.britainnews.net/story/928ce98bdb8526a3

The Avon Lady · 09-11-06, 04:50 AM

Well, this made me laugh.

Immacolata · 09-11-06, 05:44 AM

Five years is pretty tough for involuntary manslaughter. I think the punishment is fitting the crime. Doing 2½ years in the gaol for what you basically feel was an accident is a long time to serve for being "unlucky". You must also take into consideration the intention behind the incident. Just about no one driving a car intends to kill people with it, they just want to go from A to B.

Konovalov · 09-11-06, 06:21 AM

I agree with Immacolata on this issue. The new punishment is proportionate to the crime. It is certainly much better than just handing out a fine to a driver who kills someone by dangerous driving.

STEED · 09-11-06, 11:40 AM

The problem you will not see anyone locked up for the full five years, is this really justice? A human can not be replaced unlike a car, I am not saying all these acts are deliberate but we do need a much better way of investigation as the police have to follow all these bureaucratic out of date laws.

Immacolata · 09-11-06, 01:57 PM

Yes it is justice. Justice is what other people decides is right and wrong. I think 5 years sentence (2½ behind bars) is a stern punishment and just. What if the person was a vagabond with no family? Should that give a few years lesser in jail because he was a good-for-nothing bum with no family? And killing a father of 6 children 12½ years in jail, because this victim had a family to support?

Then you start punishing people for being lucky or unlucky. Lucky when they kill a bum, unlucky when they kill a family father. Thats hardly justice either, is it? Nothing can replace a dead person, but what exactly is the purpose of locking a man away for life because he ran over another man by accident?

tycho102 · 09-11-06, 03:54 PM

When you're driving, concentrate on the road before your conversation?

When you're shooting, look to see what's behind the target?

If you're practicing emergency landings, make sure you are actually prepared to do an emergency landing if your engine stalls out on you?

If you land on a grass strip, make sure it's dry enough such that your nose wheel won't sink in and give you a flip?

Responsibility: Accept no substitute.

STEED · 09-11-06, 04:04 PM

Here's a point a driver is breaking the law holding his mobile phone to his ear result he is not fully concentrating on the road and has is hands full with his mobile phone. Is he fully focus on his driving? Of course not, I see this sort of driving every day and yet we all know this law can not be enforced.

CB.. · 09-11-06, 07:01 PM

how many times have we seen folks using their mobile phones whilst driving in television shows and big movies....you don't see them smoking so much these days tho....maybe old Mary Whitehouse wasn't as batty on this as every-one wanted to believe..the advertisers most of all of course..

stabiz · 09-11-06, 07:29 PM

People always want more jailtime for criminals. Statistics seem to show that this does not frighten criminals at all, since jails in the "civilized" world are rather comfy.

The cost for all this jailtime is also astronomic.

My solution is simple (yeah, and the world would burn me on a stake), but I propose the Norwegian government use Svalbard (check the map north of the Norwegian mainland) for serious offenders. The polar bears are free and hungry. (Actually, Svalbard is a bit like the old west, the svalbarders carry rifles and pistols whenever they venture outside)

Appeals could be a bit tricky, though.

Immacolata · 09-12-06, 02:35 AM

They tried that with Australia and look what that got us. Fosters, BBQ all year round, Water Rats and Steve Irwin. God knows what would evolve from Svalbard after a few hundred years.

Bertgang · 09-12-06, 10:09 AM

I am with Immacolata and Konovalov here: unintentional kills are more a tragedy for both sides (the dead one and the responsible for his death) rather than real crimes; a light punishment is quite fair, on this point of wiew.

As final outcome, now Australia and Italy have similar rules.
For us, the punishment has to be increased just when the driver was drunk, or he otherwise was doing something seen as a crime; that not really by a special law about car driving, but by rules about trials concerning several accusations.

09-11-06, 04:50 AM	#2
The Avon Lady Über Mom Join Date: May 2005 Location: Jerusalem, Israel Posts: 6,147 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	Well, this made me laugh. __________________ "Victory will come to us from the wombs of our women." - Houari Boumedienne, President of Algeria, Speech before the UN, 1974

09-11-06, 06:21 AM	#4
Konovalov Ocean Warrior Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: High Wycombe, Bucks, UK Posts: 2,811 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	I agree with Immacolata on this issue. The new punishment is proportionate to the crime. It is certainly much better than just handing out a fine to a driver who kills someone by dangerous driving. __________________ "In a Christian context, sexuality is traditionally seen as a consequence of the Fall, but for Muslims, it is an anticipation of paradise. So I can say, I think, that I was validly converted to Islam by a teenage French Jewish nudist." Sheikh Abdul-Hakim Murad (Timothy Winter)

09-11-06, 11:40 AM	#5
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	The problem you will not see anyone locked up for the full five years, is this really justice? A human can not be replaced unlike a car, I am not saying all these acts are deliberate but we do need a much better way of investigation as the police have to follow all these bureaucratic out of date laws. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

09-11-06, 03:54 PM	#7
tycho102 Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 1,100 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	When you're driving, concentrate on the road before your conversation? When you're shooting, look to see what's behind the target? If you're practicing emergency landings, make sure you are actually prepared to do an emergency landing if your engine stalls out on you? If you land on a grass strip, make sure it's dry enough such that your nose wheel won't sink in and give you a flip? Responsibility: Accept no substitute. __________________ My little Silent Hunter 4 repository

09-11-06, 04:04 PM	#8
STEED Lucky Jack Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Down Town UK Posts: 27,695 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 48	Here's a point a driver is breaking the law holding his mobile phone to his ear result he is not fully concentrating on the road and has is hands full with his mobile phone. Is he fully focus on his driving? Of course not, I see this sort of driving every day and yet we all know this law can not be enforced. __________________ Dr Who rest in peace 1963-2017. To borrow Davros saying...I NAME YOU CHIBNALL THE DESTROYER OF DR WHO YOU KILLED IT!

09-11-06, 05:44 AM	#3
Immacolata Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 798 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Five years is pretty tough for involuntary manslaughter. I think the punishment is fitting the crime. Doing 2½ years in the gaol for what you basically feel was an accident is a long time to serve for being "unlucky". You must also take into consideration the intention behind the incident. Just about no one driving a car intends to kill people with it, they just want to go from A to B.

09-11-06, 01:57 PM	#6
Immacolata Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 798 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	Yes it is justice. Justice is what other people decides is right and wrong. I think 5 years sentence (2½ behind bars) is a stern punishment and just. What if the person was a vagabond with no family? Should that give a few years lesser in jail because he was a good-for-nothing bum with no family? And killing a father of 6 children 12½ years in jail, because this victim had a family to support? Then you start punishing people for being lucky or unlucky. Lucky when they kill a bum, unlucky when they kill a family father. Thats hardly justice either, is it? Nothing can replace a dead person, but what exactly is the purpose of locking a man away for life because he ran over another man by accident?

09-11-06, 07:01 PM	#9
CB.. Ace of the Deep Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 1,278 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	how many times have we seen folks using their mobile phones whilst driving in television shows and big movies....you don't see them smoking so much these days tho....maybe old Mary Whitehouse wasn't as batty on this as every-one wanted to believe..the advertisers most of all of course.. __________________ the world's tinyiest sh3 supermod- and other SH3/SH2 stuff http://www.ebort2.co.uk/ The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. W.B.Yeats

09-11-06, 07:29 PM	#10
stabiz Silent Hunter Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 4,224 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0	People always want more jailtime for criminals. Statistics seem to show that this does not frighten criminals at all, since jails in the "civilized" world are rather comfy. The cost for all this jailtime is also astronomic. My solution is simple (yeah, and the world would burn me on a stake), but I propose the Norwegian government use Svalbard (check the map north of the Norwegian mainland) for serious offenders. The polar bears are free and hungry. (Actually, Svalbard is a bit like the old west, the svalbarders carry rifles and pistols whenever they venture outside) Appeals could be a bit tricky, though. __________________

09-12-06, 02:35 AM	#11
Immacolata Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 798 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	They tried that with Australia and look what that got us. Fosters, BBQ all year round, Water Rats and Steve Irwin. God knows what would evolve from Svalbard after a few hundred years.

09-12-06, 10:09 AM	#12
Bertgang Sparky Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Italy Posts: 158 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I am with Immacolata and Konovalov here: unintentional kills are more a tragedy for both sides (the dead one and the responsible for his death) rather than real crimes; a light punishment is quite fair, on this point of wiew. As final outcome, now Australia and Italy have similar rules. For us, the punishment has to be increased just when the driver was drunk, or he otherwise was doing something seen as a crime; that not really by a special law about car driving, but by rules about trials concerning several accusations.