What did Sonalysts leave out of the manual?

[Linton]

Having played SC a lot I felt that the accompanying manual left a lot to be desired.A lot of the missing info was on techniques to get the most out of the equipment.The dw manual filled some of this in but still left a lot to be desired.
So what do you think was left out of the manual that should have been in there?
Is it time for a basic/advanced technique manual to be produced?

[goldorak]

All the tactical aspects have been left out of the manual.
But since there are very good comunity tutorials, some of which were done for sc but that apply equally well for dw, i don't see a problem.
The only platform that really needs a tactical tutorial is the frigate.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Linton

So what do you think was left out of the manual that should have been in there?
Is it time for a basic/advanced technique manual to be produced?

I dunno, I thought the manual was pretty good. It tells me what each knob does. What more do you want? My all-time favorite sub sim manual is the one that came with Microprose's Red Storm Rising. That one was actually a fun little read. People don't make manuals like that anymore. I miss it.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by goldorak

All the tactical aspects have been left out of the manual.

Isn't that the point of wargaming, though? To experiment with tactics on your own?

[Kapitan]

If they had coverd everything the book would be the size of canary wharf and it would take you half your life to read.

By not putting everything in this book you will find that A) its not such a boring read B) it will advance your learning and also help you experiment with your tactics and C) gives some of us an excuse to write a manual on the bits they missed out.

My under ice guide has been up graded and will go for another upgrade soon !

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by SeaQueen

Isn't that the point of wargaming, though? To experiment with tactics on your own?

Not when you're trying to learn the game.
Just knowing what each button does is not sufficient to be able to play at dw, and i think thats the biggest hurdle new players have basing themselves only on the manual.

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by goldorak

Not when you're trying to learn the game.
Just knowing what each button does is not sufficient to be able to play at dw, and i think thats the biggest hurdle new players have basing themselves only on the manual.

Fair enough. I guess it's possible that having played naval sims in the past, I tend to gloss over stuff. I think that the section on TMA could definitely be expanded on.

I can't help but feel that a "tactics manual" is something best provided by the community, because the kinds of scenarios that people in the community play dictate the most appropriate tactics. It's difficult for a company to anticipate what people actually do with a simulator like DW. I'm sure the kinds of things that someone with real life experience with naval matters is interesting in experimenting with are quite different from someone who has only ever seen The Hunt for Red October.

It'd be interesting, though, if the company actually released a tactics manual, to see if that would influence the kinds of scenarios people made.

[Linton]

Reading the flight manual for a 747 will not teach you to fly it proficiently.You need other background knowledge and learning to do it.The same goes for the manual we currently have.A tactics manual must be on the top of the list for the community to do.
A submariner in real life would not put to sea only knowing what the knobs did without knowing how to put the whole thing together

[Kapitan]

I wish i could tell you more but im afraid the tactics i use for MP games are my own, and are a closely gaurded seacret, i dont want to spit them out as i know they will be used against me someday.

and im sure its like that for others as well.

[Skybird]

What manual are you talking about, Kapitan - that for SC, or that for DW? As mediocre and ill-structured the manual for SC was, as superior was the manual for DW. It's the one thing that I always left beyond any doubt and criticism. I wished more manuals would be done like that for DW.

I sold my CDs again months ago - but kept the manual - that much I love to read in it occasionally!

[Kapitan]

Kapitans under ice guide is for both DW and SC and is availible on bills site www.subguru.com on the downloads page.

[goldorak]

Originally Posted by Skybird

What manual are you talking about, Kapitan - that for SC, or that for DW? As mediocre and ill-structured the manual for SC was, as superior was the manual for DW. It's the one thing that I always left beyond any doubt and criticism. I wished more manuals would be done like that for DW.

I sold my CDs again months ago - but kept the manual - that much I love to read in it occasionally!

Maybe SCS should have dona a better job on the game itself, and release a crappy manual instead of the other way around.
Selling the game and keeping the manual is tantamount to torturing yourself Skybird.
Everytime you read the excellent manual you will ask yourself why, why didn't SCS make the game to the same standard ? :p

[Bellman]

Arising from Lintons reference to Flighg Sim 'how-to' guides - its clear that both 737 Pilot in Commmand and PMDGs 747-400 stop short. The former requires extra purchases of Guide books and the latter promises 'one is beeing prepared' Perhaps an understandable but frustrating outcome of 9/11 ?

Never fear PC Pilot are about to fill the void with a new course in their bi-monthly puiblicatiuons which blurbs - ''our intention in this course is to offer the most thorough introduction to all aspects of flying an airliner'' (sic) Wonder whether it will actualy happen :hmm:

However I digress from DW where I was under the impression that it was OneShots admirable intention to attract instructional 'How-to' guides at CADC. It would be nice to see more contributors stepping up to the plate there !

[Linton]

Bellman,I was actually refering to my Airbus FComs.They tell you lots of technical stuff on all the systems but the actual flying stuff is down to you!The dw manual was a million times better than the excrable SC one-but it only gives basic methods on interfacing with the systems in automatic operation.Manual stuff you have to learn yourself or hope somebody on the community will help you.A really good guide to using it all manually and then fighting with the platform is what I would like to see produced!

[SeaQueen]

Originally Posted by Kapitan

I wish i could tell you more but im afraid the tactics i use for MP games are my own, and are a closely gaurded seacret, i dont want to spit them out as i know they will be used against me someday.

and im sure its like that for others as well.

I was wondering when someone would say something like that. I guess the trick to writing a "tactics manual" would be to not make it too specific, and at least somewhat open ended, so that while it might describe a general way that one might think about the problem, it doesn't say anything specific like, "open fire at XX kyds, with these torpedo presets, in situation Z."