Request urgent lessons in submerged evasion techniques

Eichenlaub · 06-24-06, 04:58 PM

Fellow Kaleuns!

Please help out this unfortunate commander. I truly am at a loss. I thought I did all the right things but alas, I am getting killed all the time now so it's time to face the music: I seem to be incapable of evading the escorts after I carry out a torpedo attack on a convoy.

I had hoped to start a new career with NYGM/GW at 100% realism and DID when I buy a new pc in a few months' time, but in light of my current performance in convoy battles, I doubt I would live past 1940-41.

I'm currently around July 1944 in a Type XXI, running a stock game patched to 1.4b; realism is set at 79%.

From 1943 I found that the DD's and DE's are incredibly apt to detect me. After launching torpedoes, I rarely get a chance to escape unharmed. My latest patrol drove this home in a way I've not yet encountered before. Out of the 6-7 attempts I've made, I got killed in each and every one. I've hit a new low.

This is the situation: I have sunk a DD or DE and have a convoy in my sights. I fire at a TT and two T3's. Though I usually sink two of them, that's when the trouble begins. The escorts come charging at me immediately. Due to the convoy set up, I usually spot the warships when they are around 800 meters away. Sometimes I can destroy a single warship but this convoy is protected by enough ships to continue the hunt for my poor Type XXI.

I dive quickly. But whatever I do, I cannot prevent being pinged by the enemy. Worse, being pinged by these escorts equals being killed. It might take a few minutes, or even half an hour, but they always seem to know perfectly at what depth I am. The measures I take are these: slow to 1 knot, run deep (around 200-225m) and always have some degrees on the rudder (10-15, to any side desirable at the time). Sometimes I remained undetected for 10 minutes...but then they ping me nonetheless. Since they always seem to know the depth I'm at (I thought ASDIC/Sonar only gave heading and range?), I get hedgehogged and depth charged invariably. I can usually escape the hogs, but the depth charges are another matter. Often the first hit damages or even destroys something critical, like all of my electric engines, my dive planes, rudder or simply reduces my HI by so much as to make my 200 meters of depth unsound.

I always thought that running silent at 1 knot at 200m would do it, but these warships detect you eventually. Evading depth charges at flank speed will only result in a "We've been detected message" withing 30 seconds of ordering flank speed only increasing their knowledge about my whereabouts.

My questions are:
-are these occurrances normal?
-what other counter measures should I take?
-any other good tips for late war convoy battles or evading while submerged?

Currently drowning my sorrows in Bavaria...no no, not the region, the BEER!

Kind regards,

Eichenlaub

Mooncatt · 06-24-06, 05:07 PM

i ran stock for ages and i have the same trouble doesnt matter wot i do i always get detected and sunk, i run 1knot silent running everything and im too at a loss so your not on ya own m8

, i have now a few mods that only make it even harder now lmao:rotfl: :rotfl: so yeah any help would be cool thanx in advance

Cpt.Thorne · 06-24-06, 08:03 PM

Well evading in the stock game shouldn´t be that hard but if you want to experience hours and hours of evading try NYGM 2.01 the DDs are really good in that. Well when you listen to your hydrophones (suspecting you don´t use external cam for help) you should try to keep those DDs in 180 or 0 from your boat giving them as little surface to ping as possible. When the pinging stops the DD is on the DC run. Hit flank speed and knuckle move and while your at it release Bold and change depth. You can run flank as long as DCs are exploding I usually go to 1kts between 5-8 explosions. Then try to manuver so that you are again giving as little hull surface towards the DD as possible. Especially with the XXI the flan speed dash is very effective and if the DDs spot the bold instead of you then you can start listening again and when DCs are exploding make another das and change depth. Also learn which Bold you are using and time the release and make sure you are aware when its effect is gone. If you are spotted again try repeating the above and pray for good luck.

bigboywooly · 06-24-06, 08:19 PM

In late war I dont get too close to a convoy
Around 1500mtr does it and dive as soon as you fire ( dont wait for impact or to watch your torps ) and turn away from convoy
Dont crash dive as its like an alarm clock ringing on the escort
I usually hit silent running before I fire so am quiet anyway and dive the same way - it takes longer but the escorts have a harder job knowing where you are to start with
And make sure your radar is off before going anywhere near a convoy or they will know you are there before you know they are
Silence is golden:rotfl:

bill clarke · 06-24-06, 08:28 PM

I have found silent running is good, just creeping along at 2 knots does nothing to hide you when your'e crew are busy clanging steel fish in to tubes.
This tecnique worked well for me on the "sink the escort carrier" mission when I had 4 DD's after me, that and depth of course.

Macel · 06-24-06, 08:31 PM

I found silent running/no or slow speed and depth to be good. You're still bound to get pinged and homed in on - And when that happens, wait for the pinging to stop.. Usually you'll hear the boat coming overhead just before the pinging is about to stop - thats when you hit flank speed and do a 90 degree turn. If you've got more room below you, diving helps too. Since you're changing your position on 3 different axis, it gets you away from the DCs a lot faster, and its way too late for the destroyers to compensate for your course changes.

06-24-06, 04:58 PM	#1
Eichenlaub Electrician's Mate Join Date: May 2006 Location: Nijmegen Posts: 132 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Request urgent lessons in submerged evasion techniques Fellow Kaleuns! Please help out this unfortunate commander. I truly am at a loss. I thought I did all the right things but alas, I am getting killed all the time now so it's time to face the music: I seem to be incapable of evading the escorts after I carry out a torpedo attack on a convoy. I had hoped to start a new career with NYGM/GW at 100% realism and DID when I buy a new pc in a few months' time, but in light of my current performance in convoy battles, I doubt I would live past 1940-41. I'm currently around July 1944 in a Type XXI, running a stock game patched to 1.4b; realism is set at 79%. From 1943 I found that the DD's and DE's are incredibly apt to detect me. After launching torpedoes, I rarely get a chance to escape unharmed. My latest patrol drove this home in a way I've not yet encountered before. Out of the 6-7 attempts I've made, I got killed in each and every one. I've hit a new low. This is the situation: I have sunk a DD or DE and have a convoy in my sights. I fire at a TT and two T3's. Though I usually sink two of them, that's when the trouble begins. The escorts come charging at me immediately. Due to the convoy set up, I usually spot the warships when they are around 800 meters away. Sometimes I can destroy a single warship but this convoy is protected by enough ships to continue the hunt for my poor Type XXI. I dive quickly. But whatever I do, I cannot prevent being pinged by the enemy. Worse, being pinged by these escorts equals being killed. It might take a few minutes, or even half an hour, but they always seem to know perfectly at what depth I am. The measures I take are these: slow to 1 knot, run deep (around 200-225m) and always have some degrees on the rudder (10-15, to any side desirable at the time). Sometimes I remained undetected for 10 minutes...but then they ping me nonetheless. Since they always seem to know the depth I'm at (I thought ASDIC/Sonar only gave heading and range?), I get hedgehogged and depth charged invariably. I can usually escape the hogs, but the depth charges are another matter. Often the first hit damages or even destroys something critical, like all of my electric engines, my dive planes, rudder or simply reduces my HI by so much as to make my 200 meters of depth unsound. I always thought that running silent at 1 knot at 200m would do it, but these warships detect you eventually. Evading depth charges at flank speed will only result in a "We've been detected message" withing 30 seconds of ordering flank speed only increasing their knowledge about my whereabouts. My questions are: -are these occurrances normal? -what other counter measures should I take? -any other good tips for late war convoy battles or evading while submerged? Currently drowning my sorrows in Bavaria...no no, not the region, the BEER! Kind regards, Eichenlaub __________________ "Despite living in a country where soft-drugs, prostitution, gay-marriage and euthanasia are all legal, I've never felt any inclination towards any of them." When SHIV hits the scene, we should not fear the double D Geisha escort...we should welcome her...

06-24-06, 08:03 PM	#3
Cpt.Thorne Torpedoman Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Helsinki, Finland Posts: 116 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well evading in the stock game shouldn´t be that hard but if you want to experience hours and hours of evading try NYGM 2.01 the DDs are really good in that. Well when you listen to your hydrophones (suspecting you don´t use external cam for help) you should try to keep those DDs in 180 or 0 from your boat giving them as little surface to ping as possible. When the pinging stops the DD is on the DC run. Hit flank speed and knuckle move and while your at it release Bold and change depth. You can run flank as long as DCs are exploding I usually go to 1kts between 5-8 explosions. Then try to manuver so that you are again giving as little hull surface towards the DD as possible. Especially with the XXI the flan speed dash is very effective and if the DDs spot the bold instead of you then you can start listening again and when DCs are exploding make another das and change depth. Also learn which Bold you are using and time the release and make sure you are aware when its effect is gone. If you are spotted again try repeating the above and pray for good luck. __________________

06-24-06, 08:19 PM	#4
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	In late war I dont get too close to a convoy Around 1500mtr does it and dive as soon as you fire ( dont wait for impact or to watch your torps ) and turn away from convoy Dont crash dive as its like an alarm clock ringing on the escort I usually hit silent running before I fire so am quiet anyway and dive the same way - it takes longer but the escorts have a harder job knowing where you are to start with And make sure your radar is off before going anywhere near a convoy or they will know you are there before you know they are Silence is golden:rotfl: __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

06-24-06, 08:31 PM	#6
Macel Swabbie Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 5 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	. I found silent running/no or slow speed and depth to be good. You're still bound to get pinged and homed in on - And when that happens, wait for the pinging to stop.. Usually you'll hear the boat coming overhead just before the pinging is about to stop - thats when you hit flank speed and do a 90 degree turn. If you've got more room below you, diving helps too. Since you're changing your position on 3 different axis, it gets you away from the DCs a lot faster, and its way too late for the destroyers to compensate for your course changes.

06-24-06, 05:07 PM	#2
Mooncatt Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Keighley UK Posts: 938 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	i ran stock for ages and i have the same trouble doesnt matter wot i do i always get detected and sunk, i run 1knot silent running everything and im too at a loss so your not on ya own m8 , i have now a few mods that only make it even harder now lmao:rotfl: :rotfl: so yeah any help would be cool thanx in advance

06-24-06, 08:28 PM	#5
bill clarke Captain Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Wagga Wagga, NSW Australia Posts: 519 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	I have found silent running is good, just creeping along at 2 knots does nothing to hide you when your'e crew are busy clanging steel fish in to tubes. This tecnique worked well for me on the "sink the escort carrier" mission when I had 4 DD's after me, that and depth of course.