688i's NB, that bad?

Ori_b · 07-01-06, 02:41 AM

Im experimenting with the mission editor, training myself with simple scenarios.
Ive noticed the fact that the NB display of the 688i will not show peaks (not even the tiny "is it there?" peak) although the frequency display shows quite clear lines.

BB display wont show lines in SHORT, only on INTERMEDIATE.

This was with a civil ship sailing at 5 knots at a 10.6nm.

Checked every array.

Change type of sub in the editor - All the other types of playble subs show peaks even in the BB display at this distance.

LuftWolf · 07-01-06, 02:58 AM

I've never noticed any problems.

Make sure you control for variable acoustic conditions between trial runs, even in the same mission run multiple times.

I've been fooled on several occasions by scenarios run multiple times, only to realize that the scenario was slightly different each time (layer at different depth, etc.).

Cheers,
David

sonar732 · 07-01-06, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori_b

Im experimenting with the mission editor, training myself with simple scenarios.
Ive noticed the fact that the NB display of the 688i will not show peaks (not even the tiny "is it there?" peak) although the frequency display shows quite clear lines.

BB display wont show lines in SHORT, only on INTERMEDIATE.

This was with a civil ship sailing at 5 knots at a 10.6nm.

Checked every array.

Change type of sub in the editor - All the other types of playble subs show peaks even in the BB display at this distance.

Something that will help us is your depth. The 688 will show peaks, but at 10.6nmi away, they will be minimal if the sound conditions are right.

Ori_b · 07-01-06, 11:30 PM

My depth is 150m for Acula, Sw, 688I
75m for Kilo

Clear sea, very deep (17000+), bottom limited condition.

Continued my testing, started to see peaks at about 5nm! (and thats after i saw faint lines in TA BB.
Again, all this happenes while very bright lines can be seen in the freq display of the BB, its just a matter of running blindly with the cursor in the strength Vs azimuth display.

Ori_b · 07-02-06, 02:20 AM

Oops, i meant very bright lines can be seen in the frequency display of the NB of course.

Fish · 07-02-06, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori_b

My depth is 150m for Acula, Sw, 688I
75m for Kilo

Clear sea, very deep (17000+), bottom limited condition.

Continued my testing, started to see peaks at about 5nm! (and thats after i saw faint lines in TA BB.
Again, all this happenes while very bright lines can be seen in the freq display of the BB, its just a matter of running blindly with the cursor in the strength Vs azimuth display.

Layer depth?

Ori_b · 07-02-06, 04:52 AM

Non excisting (Bottom Limited condition).

LuftWolf · 07-02-06, 06:01 AM

I can't repeat this on my computer. The NB is always properly sync'ed with the BB.

I suggest reinstalling and see if this makes any difference.

I've never seen this particular issue before.

Ori_b · 07-02-06, 06:25 AM

If by that you mean that you see coincident directions of both NB and BB signals from the same target, i didnt say that this is the case. I can designate the NB signal from the frequency lines display and its direction matches the 1 from BB.
The problem is only the lack of any feedback from the signal strength-azimuth display in NB up to extremly close ranges.

If you didnt mean that, then i wasted the last 10 sec of your life, sorry for that, ill try the reinstalling method when i come back home.

Wim Libaers · 07-02-06, 08:14 AM

To find contacts at long range in the 688i and Seawolf, the technique has always been to scan the NB display and look at the frequency lines that pop up (with gamma adjusted to see even the faintest lines). Not sure if this is also how it is done on real subs, but in the game, this was even true in Sub command.

Ori_b · 07-02-06, 02:06 PM

No use

Installed the game again, with the same training mission (conditions mentioned above), same result.
Only the 688i wont show peaks in NB above 6nm (while at the same time frequency lines can be seen clearly in the NB freq display without any problems in 10+nm). Kilo\Akula already show BB peaks at this higher range.
Not too happy about this, its making the NB search much more tedious.

BTW
I dont remember it from the demo (uninstalled it already), but does the DEMON display in Kilo (and Akula) only work with BB spherical trackers and not with BB conformal ones?
It doesnt say anything like that in the manual.

And they still didnt fix the manual error saying that only the DEMON lines after the first1 to the left represent blads No.

sonar732 · 07-02-06, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori_b

No use

Only the 688i wont show peaks in NB above 6nm (while at the same time frequency lines can be seen clearly in the NB freq display without any problems in 10+nm).

Possible CZ here.????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori_b

Kilo\Akula already show BB peaks at this higher range.

That's because it's BroadBand. It would be the same thing if your 688 showed a contact in the waterfall display.

Ori_b · 07-02-06, 11:23 PM

What i mean is that from what i know NB frequency sounds have greater range than BB. Buts for some reason i see peaks and lines in the BB but do not see peaks (only lines) in NB. My logic says this should be the opposite.
Are the sensors of the Kilo and Akula much better than the 688i?

Ori_b · 07-03-06, 06:51 AM

LuftWolf, if you want i can send you my training scenario.

Ori_b · 07-04-06, 09:00 AM

Or not...

Ok, I give up on this NB subject (I'll get use to it although something is wrong here),

Still, can any1 answer my question about the Kilo DEMON and BB trackers i've asked 4 posts above this one?

Thanks,

07-01-06, 02:41 AM	#1
Ori_b Gunner Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 99 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	688i's NB, that bad? Im experimenting with the mission editor, training myself with simple scenarios. Ive noticed the fact that the NB display of the 688i will not show peaks (not even the tiny "is it there?" peak) although the frequency display shows quite clear lines. BB display wont show lines in SHORT, only on INTERMEDIATE. This was with a civil ship sailing at 5 knots at a 10.6nm. Checked every array. Change type of sub in the editor - All the other types of playble subs show peaks even in the BB display at this distance.

07-01-06, 02:58 AM	#2
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I've never noticed any problems. Make sure you control for variable acoustic conditions between trial runs, even in the same mission run multiple times. I've been fooled on several occasions by scenarios run multiple times, only to realize that the scenario was slightly different each time (layer at different depth, etc.). Cheers, David __________________ LW

07-02-06, 06:01 AM	#8
LuftWolf Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: Free New York Posts: 3,167 Downloads: 2 Uploads: 0	I can't repeat this on my computer. The NB is always properly sync'ed with the BB. I suggest reinstalling and see if this makes any difference. I've never seen this particular issue before. __________________ LW

07-02-06, 02:06 PM	#11
Ori_b Gunner Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 99 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	No use Installed the game again, with the same training mission (conditions mentioned above), same result. Only the 688i wont show peaks in NB above 6nm (while at the same time frequency lines can be seen clearly in the NB freq display without any problems in 10+nm). Kilo\Akula already show BB peaks at this higher range. Not too happy about this, its making the NB search much more tedious. BTW I dont remember it from the demo (uninstalled it already), but does the DEMON display in Kilo (and Akula) only work with BB spherical trackers and not with BB conformal ones? It doesnt say anything like that in the manual. And they still didnt fix the manual error saying that only the DEMON lines after the first1 to the left represent blads No. Last edited by Ori_b; 07-04-06 at 08:55 AM.

07-01-06, 11:30 PM	#4
Ori_b Gunner Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 99 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	My depth is 150m for Acula, Sw, 688I 75m for Kilo Clear sea, very deep (17000+), bottom limited condition. Continued my testing, started to see peaks at about 5nm! (and thats after i saw faint lines in TA BB. Again, all this happenes while very bright lines can be seen in the freq display of the BB, its just a matter of running blindly with the cursor in the strength Vs azimuth display.

07-02-06, 02:20 AM	#5
Ori_b Gunner Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 99 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Oops, i meant very bright lines can be seen in the frequency display of the NB of course.

07-02-06, 04:52 AM	#7
Ori_b Gunner Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 99 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Non excisting (Bottom Limited condition).

07-02-06, 06:25 AM	#9
Ori_b Gunner Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 99 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	If by that you mean that you see coincident directions of both NB and BB signals from the same target, i didnt say that this is the case. I can designate the NB signal from the frequency lines display and its direction matches the 1 from BB. The problem is only the lack of any feedback from the signal strength-azimuth display in NB up to extremly close ranges. If you didnt mean that, then i wasted the last 10 sec of your life, sorry for that, ill try the reinstalling method when i come back home.

07-02-06, 08:14 AM	#10
Wim Libaers Samurai Navy Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Flanders Posts: 569 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	To find contacts at long range in the 688i and Seawolf, the technique has always been to scan the NB display and look at the frequency lines that pop up (with gamma adjusted to see even the faintest lines). Not sure if this is also how it is done on real subs, but in the game, this was even true in Sub command.

07-02-06, 11:23 PM	#13
Ori_b Gunner Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 99 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	What i mean is that from what i know NB frequency sounds have greater range than BB. Buts for some reason i see peaks and lines in the BB but do not see peaks (only lines) in NB. My logic says this should be the opposite. Are the sensors of the Kilo and Akula much better than the 688i?

07-03-06, 06:51 AM	#14
Ori_b Gunner Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 99 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	LuftWolf, if you want i can send you my training scenario.

07-04-06, 09:00 AM	#15
Ori_b Gunner Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 99 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Or not... Ok, I give up on this NB subject (I'll get use to it although something is wrong here), Still, can any1 answer my question about the Kilo DEMON and BB trackers i've asked 4 posts above this one? Thanks,