Some questions about ship modelling

Props · 05-01-06, 11:35 PM

Hey all!

After a couple days (...) of work I finally managed to complete my model of the british Abdiel-Class fast minelayer and to import it - thanks to Sansals Pack3D and the informations I found here - into SH3. Up to now I didn't have the time for extensive tests, but as far as I can tell (and yes, I try to be impartial) it looks good and works quite fine. But there are still some bugs I would like to fix and some points that should be changed. To do his I have some questions and hope someone here can enlighten me:

1. Is it possible to change the parent IDs iof single 3D-objects inside a units .dat-file, for example to move the flag-node from one mast to another or the A0X nodes from the units xxx_B to xxx_F?

2. I have read, that it is possible to add nodes or objects, like an additional funnel. How can you do this?

3. Is it possible to change the names of the embedded .tga-files after cloning a units .dat-file? (I encountered a problem with the textures of either the parent or the newly created unit during a single mission created by mission editor: one of the units tended to use the wrong texture which looked funny, but wasn't...)

4. How can you change the position of the bow wave after editing the hull or creating a new one from scratch? If I am correct it depends, just like the positions of the vulnerable areas on the .zon-files which can only be modified by hex editing.

For all these questions (maybe without point 4 as it seems to me it can only be done by hex editing) I would really appreciate if anybody can tell me, if (and maybe how) it is possible to

a) do them without hex editing (because I really don't have any experience with that kind of stuff) and if not,

b) can it be done by hex editing in a way, even an unexperienced amateur (and I really mean this) like me can do it?

Thanks in advance
Props

Oh, before I forget it: here are some pics (one of them showing some points I want to change)

Boris · 05-02-06, 02:31 AM

Nice looking ship.

To change the ship description have you tried editing NDD_Type34_ge and NDD_Type34_en files in the ship folder?

Other than that i know little of ship building. I would love to have a step-by-step guide for making ships, as I want to get into it.

sergbuto · 05-02-06, 02:50 AM

Is this work for U-Boat: Battle in the Mediterranean by X1 software (early name Seawolves: Mediterranean) or you are going release this ship for free?

Props · 05-02-06, 04:12 AM

@Boris

Not yet. I thought it would just be for the museum and not affecting the unit in-game, so I just didn't take the time to do it yet.
But anyway, thanks for the tip.
If you want to build your own ships, maybe you should just try it. If you use Sansals Pack3D you can open the .dat-files and extract the objects, which you can use to practice with a 3D modelling program of your choice (I think many people here use Wings3D). At least, thats how I began...

@sergbuto

No, it is not for any mod or mod-compilation, as I am not part of any of those how ever you want to call that "groups" (like X1). I am just a single player, who spent a lot of time in this forum and after downloading many of the ships that were created by players I wanted to try it by myself. So yes, I plan to release it for free. But I hope that I can fix the points I mentioned before.

Props

AG124 · 05-02-06, 08:18 AM

Have you PM'd UBOAT234? He knows how to add extra node points, including smoke.

Have you fixed the zones and damage model? You may want to ask DerTeddyBar about that, as he knows about those areas.

As for the flag, I would switch the 3d models of each mast using your 3d editing program, and then switch their positions using Pack3d. You may be able to move the flag on its own though - I've never tried it. :hmm: However, since the current forward mast is much larger than the aft one, it may create another problem with the damage file.

sergbuto · 05-02-06, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Props

@sergbuto

No, it is not for any mod or mod-compilation, as I am not part of any of those how ever you want to call that "groups" (like X1). I am just a single player, who spent a lot of time in this forum and after downloading many of the ships that were created by players I wanted to try it by myself. So yes, I plan to release it for free. But I hope that I can fix the points I mentioned before.

Props

I asked this question because people from X1 software come to this forum using new nicks (which have very few posts and no info in the member-profile) to ask detailed questions about how-to-do-some-particular-thing, to pick up the knowledge, the mods, and ideas and then sell the stuff.

Anyhow, you can change the bow wave position and .tga names using Pack3D. As for the rest, I am afraid it requires hex-editing. The worst thing you need to adjust damage zones in the ZON file, as AG124 mentioned.

Props · 05-03-06, 01:02 PM

Sorry that I couldn't reply sooner (had to work).

@AG124

I moved the flag-position with Pack3d and it would be possible to move it to the aft mast. The problem with this solution (at least as far as I can see) would be, that it would still be there, hanging in the air, if the aft mast is destroyed (on the other side it should disappear, if the main mast got hit). For the same reason I would like to change parent IDs of single 3D objects as for now, on of the two searchlights is connected to the main mast (original type34 hierarchy) and therefore disappears after the mast is destroyed.
A similar problem affects the cranes, which are located on the aft half of the ship, but still refer to the front half, which looks funny if the ship detonates and brakes into halves.

Beside this thanks for the tip about UBOAT234 and DerTeddyBar!
I will give it a try.

@sergbuto

No problem, I think i have read enough in the forum to know, why people "like" X1 software the way they do .... (Maybe I can try to update my profile with some more infos as soon as I can figure out where

)
Changing the names of the .tga files didn't work with Pack3d, but I managed to do it by hex editing (yeah, it worked! at least I can do this with a hex editor!).
As for the bow wave, moving it with Pack3d just moved the horizontal one (meaning the waves on water surface), but not the vertical one (where the hull "cuts" through the water). So I am afraid his means hex editing, too ... *desperation*... .

Edit: (just figured out, the text in the image isn't that readable)
on the left side you can see the seearchlight connected to the main mast, and on the right side the cranes, showing through the aft half of the hull as they are connected to the front half (type34 hierarchy)

bigboywooly · 06-07-06, 02:32 PM

did you ever get this to work ?

Der Teddy Bar · 06-07-06, 02:52 PM

Props,
The ships are made up of 3 peices, the complete ship that everyone normally sees and inside that, 2 halves that you see when the ship breaks in two.

AG124 sent me some ships, they are really nice work. On his Lake ship, I really like the look of this ship, I have rezoned and tested it for sinking and it is all ready to go almost....

There are 2 issues, firstly there are a LOT of left bits and pieces from the original ship. This is not an issue in itself as I can easily delete these parts.

Secondly, the 2 halves are that of the original ship. Again should not really be an issue as I can just move the parts from the 2 halves onto the complete ship.

The problem is that when I save any merchant ship, be it an original or the Lake by AG124, I loose the texture mapping and end up with a totally albino ship.

hmmm, a bit lost there....

So you need to remodel the 2 halves ...

bigboywooly · 06-07-06, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

Props,
there are a LOT of left bits and pieces from the original ship. This is not an issue in itself as I can easily delete these parts.
...

Ahh DTB you may have just saved me from a new thread

How can you delete the parts ( presume you mean nodes too ) and with what - if you would be so kind

AG124 · 06-07-06, 09:26 PM

I can actually form two new halves from the main hull, if the Lake Ship is ready to send back to me.

I successfully completed the process for the Rose Castle.

bigboywooly · 06-11-06, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Der Teddy Bar

Props,

The problem is that when I save any merchant ship, be it an original or the Lake by AG124, I loose the texture mapping and end up with a totally albino ship.

hmmm, a bit lost there....

So you need to remodel the 2 halves ...

Just had albino ship myself and found that while I had a skin in the ships folder it was named****_T02
By renaming it ****_T01 ( as there wasnt a ****_T01 in there ) it worked

Dont know whether that will fix what you are getting

05-01-06, 11:35 PM	#1
Props Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grid AO07 Posts: 6 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Some questions about ship modelling Hey all! After a couple days (...) of work I finally managed to complete my model of the british Abdiel-Class fast minelayer and to import it - thanks to Sansals Pack3D and the informations I found here - into SH3. Up to now I didn't have the time for extensive tests, but as far as I can tell (and yes, I try to be impartial) it looks good and works quite fine. But there are still some bugs I would like to fix and some points that should be changed. To do his I have some questions and hope someone here can enlighten me: 1. Is it possible to change the parent IDs iof single 3D-objects inside a units .dat-file, for example to move the flag-node from one mast to another or the A0X nodes from the units xxx_B to xxx_F? 2. I have read, that it is possible to add nodes or objects, like an additional funnel. How can you do this? 3. Is it possible to change the names of the embedded .tga-files after cloning a units .dat-file? (I encountered a problem with the textures of either the parent or the newly created unit during a single mission created by mission editor: one of the units tended to use the wrong texture which looked funny, but wasn't...) 4. How can you change the position of the bow wave after editing the hull or creating a new one from scratch? If I am correct it depends, just like the positions of the vulnerable areas on the .zon-files which can only be modified by hex editing. For all these questions (maybe without point 4 as it seems to me it can only be done by hex editing) I would really appreciate if anybody can tell me, if (and maybe how) it is possible to a) do them without hex editing (because I really don't have any experience with that kind of stuff) and if not, b) can it be done by hex editing in a way, even an unexperienced amateur (and I really mean this) like me can do it? Thanks in advance Props Oh, before I forget it: here are some pics (one of them showing some points I want to change)

05-02-06, 02:50 AM	#3
sergbuto Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,331 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	Is this work for U-Boat: Battle in the Mediterranean by X1 software (early name Seawolves: Mediterranean) or you are going release this ship for free? __________________ Serg's SH4 and SH3 pages

05-02-06, 08:18 AM	#5
AG124 Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 1,878 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	Have you PM'd UBOAT234? He knows how to add extra node points, including smoke. Have you fixed the zones and damage model? You may want to ask DerTeddyBar about that, as he knows about those areas. As for the flag, I would switch the 3d models of each mast using your 3d editing program, and then switch their positions using Pack3d. You may be able to move the flag on its own though - I've never tried it. :hmm: However, since the current forward mast is much larger than the aft one, it may create another problem with the damage file. __________________ DOWNLOAD GWX HERE: http://www.thegreywolves.com/index.html

06-07-06, 02:32 PM	#8
bigboywooly Rear Admiral Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Swindon, England Posts: 10,151 Downloads: 35 Uploads: 0	did you ever get this to work ? __________________ My mediafire page http://www.mediafire.com/?11eoq19bq9r41

06-07-06, 09:26 PM	#11
AG124 Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Canada Posts: 1,878 Downloads: 4 Uploads: 0	I can actually form two new halves from the main hull, if the Lake Ship is ready to send back to me. I successfully completed the process for the Rose Castle. __________________ DOWNLOAD GWX HERE: http://www.thegreywolves.com/index.html

05-02-06, 02:31 AM	#2
Boris Sea Lord Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Hamburg, Germany Posts: 1,691 Downloads: 41 Uploads: 0	Nice looking ship. To change the ship description have you tried editing NDD_Type34_ge and NDD_Type34_en files in the ship folder? Other than that i know little of ship building. I would love to have a step-by-step guide for making ships, as I want to get into it.

05-02-06, 04:12 AM	#4
Props Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grid AO07 Posts: 6 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	@Boris Not yet. I thought it would just be for the museum and not affecting the unit in-game, so I just didn't take the time to do it yet. But anyway, thanks for the tip. If you want to build your own ships, maybe you should just try it. If you use Sansals Pack3D you can open the .dat-files and extract the objects, which you can use to practice with a 3D modelling program of your choice (I think many people here use Wings3D). At least, thats how I began... @sergbuto No, it is not for any mod or mod-compilation, as I am not part of any of those how ever you want to call that "groups" (like X1). I am just a single player, who spent a lot of time in this forum and after downloading many of the ships that were created by players I wanted to try it by myself. So yes, I plan to release it for free. But I hope that I can fix the points I mentioned before. Props

05-03-06, 01:02 PM	#7
Props Swabbie Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Grid AO07 Posts: 6 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	Sorry that I couldn't reply sooner (had to work). @AG124 I moved the flag-position with Pack3d and it would be possible to move it to the aft mast. The problem with this solution (at least as far as I can see) would be, that it would still be there, hanging in the air, if the aft mast is destroyed (on the other side it should disappear, if the main mast got hit). For the same reason I would like to change parent IDs of single 3D objects as for now, on of the two searchlights is connected to the main mast (original type34 hierarchy) and therefore disappears after the mast is destroyed. A similar problem affects the cranes, which are located on the aft half of the ship, but still refer to the front half, which looks funny if the ship detonates and brakes into halves. Beside this thanks for the tip about UBOAT234 and DerTeddyBar! I will give it a try. @sergbuto No problem, I think i have read enough in the forum to know, why people "like" X1 software the way they do .... (Maybe I can try to update my profile with some more infos as soon as I can figure out where ) Changing the names of the .tga files didn't work with Pack3d, but I managed to do it by hex editing (yeah, it worked! at least I can do this with a hex editor!). As for the bow wave, moving it with Pack3d just moved the horizontal one (meaning the waves on water surface), but not the vertical one (where the hull "cuts" through the water). So I am afraid his means hex editing, too ... desperation... . Edit: (just figured out, the text in the image isn't that readable) on the left side you can see the seearchlight connected to the main mast, and on the right side the cranes, showing through the aft half of the hull as they are connected to the front half (type34 hierarchy)

06-07-06, 02:52 PM	#9
Der Teddy Bar Blade Master Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 1,388 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Props, The ships are made up of 3 peices, the complete ship that everyone normally sees and inside that, 2 halves that you see when the ship breaks in two. AG124 sent me some ships, they are really nice work. On his Lake ship, I really like the look of this ship, I have rezoned and tested it for sinking and it is all ready to go almost.... There are 2 issues, firstly there are a LOT of left bits and pieces from the original ship. This is not an issue in itself as I can easily delete these parts. Secondly, the 2 halves are that of the original ship. Again should not really be an issue as I can just move the parts from the 2 halves onto the complete ship. The problem is that when I save any merchant ship, be it an original or the Lake by AG124, I loose the texture mapping and end up with a totally albino ship. hmmm, a bit lost there.... So you need to remodel the 2 halves ...