Any way to Mark contacts from the bridge of a FFG??

[Momar69]

I was playing a single mission where I had to distroy some missle boats that were going to attack my Tico. I go up onto the bridge and look around and see one flying by in my bicnoculars. Now my Radar hasnt picked it up and i couldnt pick it up through all the fishing boats on my sonar but I could see it in my binoculars. Is their any way to mark it what so ever?? I couldnt engage it because I couldnt get a solution on it.

[LuftWolf]

All visual contacts will be marked automatically by the FFG Lookout Autocrew, which is always active.

Check your Nav map for these contacts.

[Momar69]

I did, and they did great picking out the fishing boats, but there was no contact anywhere near the bearing I had my noculars pointed at. This guy was moving fast too and since I had no contact I had nothing to engage. I tried a snapshot but couldnt get it through the shipping traffic.

[LuftWolf]

Depending on the specific conditions, the autocrew may not pick somethings out... the actual operation of the autocrew depends on the math of the sensor engine, as opposed to the actual 3-d display... so more or less, you can think of it as the crew only calling out somethings when they have a certain confidence... usually it works fine.

That mission, with the blue speed boats, is a bit of an unusual situation... the best bet that I have found is to illuminate them with your Surface Search Radar and then assign the CIWS to attack them. The Vulcan makes nice work of the boats when you get close enough for the CIWS radar system to track them, as they are generally too fast for the Mk92 Fire Control Radar (so no SM-2 or 75mm), too close for the Harpoon to be practical, too far for the .50cal, but *just right* for the CIWS.

Try it, it's very satisfying to watch them get eaten up by 20mm on the Helo Spotting Camera.

PS Generally speaking, the torpedoes on the FFG are for ASW, if you have another ship in your sites, the frigate has FAR more effective weapons than its LWTs.

[Wildcat]

I also wish that incoming vampires would be reported immediately when spotted by the lookouts. When I'm manning the bridge I can see any missile launch within about 10 miles just from the smoke trail behind it, the crew should report it automatically so defensive measures can be taken.

At this point if a kilo comes within 7nm of you and fires more than 2 klub ASM missiles are you, you have no chance whatsoever.

[LuftWolf]

Uh, why is that a problem?

[Wildcat]

Well because you don't receive a warning until the missiles are much closer, which reduces the time you have to dedicate anti missile resources.

For example with an additional 5 seconds of warning I could have the autocannon pumping shells toward incoming missiles as well as firing my sm2 and locking up the ciws in that direction. As it stands you don't get a warning until the missiles are about 3 seconds or so away, by then you have no chance at all. The lame part is that you can watch the missiles being launched pretty far away but can't do anything to engage them because the computer pretends not to see them. The radars and computer lookouts spot them at the same time.

There's no way to manually control the guns and missiles, and in high sea states you have virtually 0 chance at ever intercepting klubs because even if the missiles are detected by radar, the computer automatically bounces the contact between a surface and submerged contact making it impossible to fire at.

[LuftWolf]

Well, no one said intercepting supersonic missiles from under 10nm would be easy or even feasible... I'm not sure I have a problem with this from a balance standpoint.

With the AI helo capabilities now, if the FFG player lets a sub get within 10nm, he probably ought to eat it...

In general, I find if the missiles come from some distance away I have plenty of time to intercept them, although the solution has to settle somewhat after the missile has been tracked for a few seconds, which is not unreasonable, almost nothing in DW comes instantly in terms of sensors.

[Wildcat]

Well the main issue is that human eyes can easily see the target (not just realistically but in the game as well) but the computer is completely oblivious. And I agree that letting a kilo that close means you deserve to die, but nonetheless it's an artificial restriction, if a human can see the launch then the computer should too.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

Well because you don't receive a warning until the missiles are much closer, which reduces the time you have to dedicate anti missile resources.

There is the problem the auto lookout tends to give very good info: range, course, speed ... etc that's even better than the radar solution. It is unfair for them to give such precise data about something that far out, when all they can honestly say is that they saw a flash.

If you really wanna try, I guess you can, after seeing the flash yourself, rush to Nav, plot a manual solution where you THINK the missile will head towards and tell the gun to engage that. The gun should fire. Not that it will hit it, but that's realistic - the chances of hitting missiles are lousy enough with full radar tracking.

The point is, you won't be able to engage it anyway due to a lack of precise data. The only thing you can do realistically is launch decoys and activate your CIWS.

As for your missile illuminator, even if the lookouts see it, there may be no way to direct the illuminator manually at all. Even if it can be directed, the lookouts are NOT optronics and the illuminator is not slaved electronically to them. Which means the data about at LEAST elevation and bearing has to be transmitted orally and punched in manually.

The illuminator will attempt the acquisition with no range gate and no velocity gate because it never received the data from the search radar, which all the waves are even more in the way than usual...

And really, what makes you think the illuminator can pick out the target from the clutter when the main search radar hasn't yet, and even if it can, or maybe you decided to just send the missile out without a tracking solution and hope it'd somehow detect the SARH reflections, that the missile's even more simpleminded system will have a chance...

The point is, you stand no chance without electronic acquisition, either by radar or optronics.

[Wildcat]

I understand that the lookouts are not linked to the FCR, however getting an earlier warning allows you to go on the defensive instead of just waiting for the missiles to innevitably hit.

For example if a kilo launches from 7nm away, if I happen to be on the bridge or at a lookout station I can instantly determine to within 3 degrees where the missile was launched from. After this, I can throw up several countermeasures and begin evasive maneuvering (even though you have only 15 seconds or so to do it, if you're travelling at 29 knots you can turn pretty quickly.)

At the moment the autocrew will not report any vampires until far too late. If the smoke trail is visible, the auto crew should report it. A human player would. I don't think it's really asking too much, the odds are so extremely stacked against the OHP when missiles are involved (mainly because mission designers don't include aegis ships but include lots of akulas or klub kilo's) it's almost not worth trying.

IMO the solution is to either increase the autocrew's visibility and the speed at which they report inbound vampires, or trigger an audible warning the instant it spots a smoke trail from a rocket motor. If this is unreasonable then the smoke trails should be removed from all missiles that do not realisticly have smoke trails. If a human player in multiplayer can spot it, the computer should as well.

The time gained may be only a few seconds, but trust me it makes a big difference.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

Originally Posted by Wildcat

I understand that the lookouts are not linked to the FCR, however getting an earlier warning allows you to go on the defensive instead of just waiting for the missiles to innevitably hit.

That's not the impression of your previous post where you think you can launch missiles and SAMs given a few more seconds...

For example if a kilo launches from 7nm away, if I happen to be on the bridge or at a lookout station I can instantly determine to within 3 degrees where the missile was launched from. After this, I can throw up several countermeasures and begin evasive maneuvering (even though you have only 15 seconds or so to do it, if you're travelling at 29 knots you can turn pretty quickly.)

Why do you hunt subs at 29 knots? The FFG's TA is pretty good against flow noise, but 29 knots will still overwhelm it. No wonder you keep getting killed...

At the moment the autocrew will not report any vampires until far too late. If the smoke trail is visible, the auto crew should report it. A human player would.

A human player won't give it complete with course, speed, range and bearing that is better than would come out of the radar if it detected the weapon.

I don't think it's really asking too much, the odds are so extremely stacked against the OHP when missiles are involved (mainly because mission designers don't include aegis ships but include lots of akulas or klub kilo's) it's almost not worth trying.

The OHP is an expendable platform. Aegis guarding your frigate? Get real

Stop moving around at 29 knots and use your towed arrays and those new, improved heloes to kill the Kilos.

IMO the solution is to either increase the autocrew's visibility and the speed at which they report inbound vampires,

Not possible. It'd make them report lots of other things with perfect accuracy before radar gets them.

or trigger an audible warning the instant it spots a smoke trail from a rocket motor.

It will likely be a semi-omniscent sensor in the vein of the present Torpedo and Vampire warners, which is not good. It will pick up the trail even in the foggiest night, and then you will scream UNREALISTIC! all over again.

I guess maybe the mod team can see what can be done to remove the smoke trails...

[Wildcat]

If you'd like to further question my abilities as a FFG player, we can sort things out over a friendly multiplayer game and decide just how little I know about playing FFG. Otherwise I think I'll refrain from posting in this thread from here on in.