Greywolves TOO hard!!

04-05-06, 07:06 AM

Overall I still love this mod of the game, but I do have some complaints that I hope will be fixed in future releases.

First, the sounds need a bit of tweaking. It appears some of them are either too loud or too soft or unhearable altogether.

Second, the damaged modeling is WAY TOO hard! I am saying this because it took an entire stock of torpedos to even scratch a 'large cargo' ship (What are we launching here? Nerf Torpedos?). I then went back to port resupplied and found a 'tramp steamer' on my next patrol. It took 4 torps to catch her on fire. And 3 more to get her to sink which took forever for her to do in deep water. She just bobbed up and down for almost 2 days before going under.

So, I exited my game and tweaked the torp setting power from MinEF 120 to MinEF 900 and MaxEF 180 to MaxEF 1000 for each torpedo type. So theoretically 1 torpedo now had the power of 9-10 torpedos.

So, I went back into the game and found yet another 'large cargo' and still it took 3 torps to bring her down and 2 torps to bring down another 'tramp steamer' I came across using the new torpedo settings that I implemented that should have the damage power of 9-10 torpedos. Which means these ships are way too industructable. Doing the math that means that it would have takin 27-30 torpedos to get the 'large cargo' to sink on default settings in Greywolves mod, and roughly 18-20 torpedos for the 'tramp steamer'

Der Teddy Bar · 04-05-06, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SubSerpent

Overall I still love this mod of the game, but I do have some complaints that I hope will be fixed in future releases.

First, the sounds need a bit of tweaking. It appears some of them are either too loud or too soft or unhearable altogether.

Second, the damaged modeling is WAY TOO hard! I am saying this because it took an entire stock of torpedos to even scratch a 'large cargo' ship (What are we launching here? Nerf Torpedos?). I then went back to port resupplied and found a 'tramp steamer' on my next patrol. It took 4 torps to catch her on fire. And 3 more to get her to sink which took forever for her to do in deep water. She just bobbed up and down for almost 2 days before going under.

So, I exited my game and tweaked the torp setting power from MinEF 120 to MinEF 900 and MaxEF 180 to MaxEF 1000 for each torpedo type. So theoretically 1 torpedo now had the power of 9-10 torpedos.

So, I went back into the game and found yet another 'large cargo' and still it took 3 torps to bring her down and 2 torps to bring down another 'tramp steamer' I came across using the new torpedo settings that I implemented that should have the damage power of 9-10 torpedos. Which means these ships are way too industructable. Doing the math that means that it would have takin 27-30 torpedos to get the 'large cargo' to sink on default settings in Greywolves mod, and roughly 18-20 torpedos for the 'tramp steamer'

That is because the ships sink. There is so much stuff on the forums about the NYGM Ship Damage Mod that there really is no excuse for being unable to sink a ship.

I can sink a tramp steamer with 1 torpedo and on a bad day 2.

On a good day a Liberty ship is 2 torpedoes and on a bad it is 4 and on a shocker 5. But mostly 3.

While the NYGM Ship Damage Mod is not perfect, it is you that is the issue. It works, it works well, it is not perfect, but it works. It is simply you.

I have clearly detailed how the SHIII damage works and how the NYGM Ship Damage Mod works down to the minutest degree.

If you have missed the obvious threads, here they are again...
NYGM and GW - Ship Damage FAQ
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50331

Not Your Grand Mothers Ship Damage Mod Beta 0.1.36
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopi...highlight=nygm

AceChilla · 04-05-06, 07:32 AM

Yeah I got the same problem. I had 2 C2's at the brink of sinking 500 meters from eachother.

I both hitted them with 2 torps. Then when they wouldn't sink I plugged one more in both.

But still after waiting for 2 days looking at these boats floating on the surface, they were still alive. I decided too leave came back a week later they where both gone and I never got the reknown.

I don't like the new damage model.

Dowly · 04-05-06, 07:34 AM

Next time, try to aim your torpedos to the different compartments of you target. Helps flooding the ship.

The rate of flooding doesnt increase even if you launch 20 billion torpedos to the exact same spot.

Dowly · 04-05-06, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceChilla

Yeah I got the same problem. I had 2 C2's at the brink of sinking 500 meters from eachother.

I both hitted them with 2 torps. Then when they wouldn't sink I plugged one more in both.

But still after waiting for 2 days looking at these boats floating on the surface, they were still alive. I decided too leave came back a week later they where both gone and I never got the reknown.

I don't like the new damage model.

Someone correct me if IÂ´m wrong.

You said that you left the area? How far did you go? Not sure about NYGM, but in the stock game you would have to be near the ship when it sinks to get the renown.

Oh and Teddy, I love your NYGM damage mod!

VonHelsching · 04-05-06, 07:41 AM

Subserpent,

The NYGM Ship Damage model used in GW is a completely new concept regarding the ship damage and it seems that a lot of time has been invested in this. I have made some small mods/fixes myself and I can hardly size the effort required for this. Only to test this thing, ship by ship, it would require weeks.

The ships cannot be sunk anymore from hit points (HP), unless you fire them 20 torpedos. Now they sink. And sometimes they take a long time to sink. The deck gun can be used now only for shot under the waterline, in order to sink faster. Firing at the decks or cargo has now become useless, because all the ships now have many HPs. You see, in order to fix realism in the sinking side, you have to ruin realism in the DG side (i.e imagine what would happen in RL if a couple of 88s or even better 105s HE shells landed on the captain's deck)

Anyway, the NYGM Damage system is still "draft", so my guess is that we are expecting a lot of interesting stuff in the forthcoming version 2.

I am also very troubled about this, like you. I went into Dover for a harbour raid in 1939 with my IID and fired 3 torpedos on a Fiji. One impact and two magnetic, in different compartments. It just sank about ~1 meter and it stopped there for many hours; didn' touch the seafloor.

I am still going to give this mod a try, but if this becomes the majority of the cases (ie 3 torpedos and waiting for many hours) I might revert to stock damage system and wait for version 2.

Konovalov · 04-05-06, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceChilla

I don't like the new damage model.

Simply uninstall and try something else. There are so many mods out there to suit everyones tastes.

I for one have not tried out the NYGM mod yet. I did however print out the massive PDF document about it and have read parts of it. Perhaps if you read this you would get a better understanding of it and how it works and most importantly how you can get the best out if it.

AceChilla · 04-05-06, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Someone correct me if IÂ´m wrong.

You said that you left the area? How far did you go? Not sure about NYGM, but in the stock game you would have to be near the ship when it sinks to get the renown.

Oh and Teddy, I love your NYGM damage mod!

Yeah I left after waiting for 2 days. I shot them down south of Ireland (the convoy spot). Went to patrol at my square south of Reykjavik, and on the way back I went to the same spot they once where, they were gone.

They must have sunk, I can't imagine them fixing themselves up after floating around for 2 days with heavy flooding. Could that be realistic?

BTW. I also shot about 75 round of my deckgun in both. But I didn't know then that causing fires doesn't do anything to help the sinking. Most of the rounds I didn't shoot at the waterline, maybe if I'd have done that it would have helped.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dowly

Next time, try to aim your torpedos to the different compartments of you target. Helps flooding the ship.

The rate of flooding doesnt increase even if you launch 20 billion torpedos to the exact same spot.

I didn't know this either

I guess maybe if I get a better understanding of the mechanics it won't be a problem anymore.

kiwi_2005 · 04-05-06, 08:14 AM

SubSerpent Wrote

Quote:

What are we launching here? Nerf Torpedos?

:rotfl: :rotfl:

I haven't even tried GW yet, From what i read i might wait for the updates/patches to come out.

cmdrk · 04-05-06, 09:07 AM

I have not tried or read much about NYGM or GW, but by this thread I might not.

It sounds like 3 torpedoes in one compartment doesn't do any more damage than 1 and that gun rounds above the waterline are just pyrotechnics.

Is this right? I'm not saying stock damage modelling is great, but the above seems a bit on the opposite extreme.

As a side thought, if a second depth charge hits the sub in the same compartment is more damage done?

Kpt. Lehmann · 04-05-06, 09:09 AM

I am SOOOOOO going to post here after I get a bit of sleep.

CWorth · 04-05-06, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpt. Lehmann

I am SOOOOOO going to post here after I get a bit of sleep.

You would think that with all the NYGM posts around here people would understand by now..
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=50331

Dowly · 04-05-06, 09:56 AM

WhatÂ´s all this fuzz about!?

I have had no problems with NYGM nor GW regarding the ship sinking.

Can you really say that a 88mm shell to the deck structures of the ship should sink it?

AceChilla · 04-05-06, 10:49 AM

Mind you guys, Im not critisizing Grew Wolves or the NYGM mod. I think both are great I wouldn't go back to the stock SH3 ever. And you guys did a great job making them.

Im just saying I agree the damage model kinda irritates me sometimes. I should have taken a screenshot of those 2 c2's just floating there with heavy flooding for 2 days. With me just floating next to them not knowing how to sink either of them, you would have understood :rotfl:

But maybe I don't understand the mechanics well enough. For instance I did shoot the torpedo's at the same place on the ship, Right in the engine room where I always put them. Maybe if I wouldn't have done that it would have been OK.

And people please. Not all people hear read the hunderds of pages of thread about all the mods coming out. My head is spinning sometimes thinking which mod does what and what are the precise effects. You can't expect everyone to know how the stuff in mods work exactly, even if most of the die-hards know it by heart.

Thats why I love Grey Wolves so much, because it's all the goodies into one!

Kilamon · 04-05-06, 11:30 AM

I first noticed the indicator for fuel compartment, keel and etc last night while hunting and used them pretty effectively, but I had a quest about what conditions allows the compartments to show. I didn't see them pop up til I was about 880 meters away and a 60-120 AOB but I can't quntify that as exact since my speed seemed to be an indicator as well in addition to who know what else (I saw the compartment indicator vanish a couple times while targeting). Would someone clarify this?

04-05-06, 07:06 AM	#1
SubSerpent Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	Greywolves TOO hard!! Overall I still love this mod of the game, but I do have some complaints that I hope will be fixed in future releases. First, the sounds need a bit of tweaking. It appears some of them are either too loud or too soft or unhearable altogether. Second, the damaged modeling is WAY TOO hard! I am saying this because it took an entire stock of torpedos to even scratch a 'large cargo' ship (What are we launching here? Nerf Torpedos?). I then went back to port resupplied and found a 'tramp steamer' on my next patrol. It took 4 torps to catch her on fire. And 3 more to get her to sink which took forever for her to do in deep water. She just bobbed up and down for almost 2 days before going under. So, I exited my game and tweaked the torp setting power from MinEF 120 to MinEF 900 and MaxEF 180 to MaxEF 1000 for each torpedo type. So theoretically 1 torpedo now had the power of 9-10 torpedos. So, I went back into the game and found yet another 'large cargo' and still it took 3 torps to bring her down and 2 torps to bring down another 'tramp steamer' I came across using the new torpedo settings that I implemented that should have the damage power of 9-10 torpedos. Which means these ships are way too industructable. Doing the math that means that it would have takin 27-30 torpedos to get the 'large cargo' to sink on default settings in Greywolves mod, and roughly 18-20 torpedos for the 'tramp steamer'

04-05-06, 09:09 AM	#11
Kpt. Lehmann GWX Project Director Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The Republic of Texas Posts: 6,993 Downloads: 124 Uploads: 0	I am SOOOOOO going to post here after I get a bit of sleep. __________________ www.thegreywolves.com All you need is good men. - Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock

04-05-06, 11:30 AM	#15
Kilamon Loader Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 82 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	I first noticed the indicator for fuel compartment, keel and etc last night while hunting and used them pretty effectively, but I had a quest about what conditions allows the compartments to show. I didn't see them pop up til I was about 880 meters away and a 60-120 AOB but I can't quntify that as exact since my speed seemed to be an indicator as well in addition to who know what else (I saw the compartment indicator vanish a couple times while targeting). Would someone clarify this? __________________ GW Mod is teh win!

04-05-06, 07:32 AM	#3
AceChilla Mate Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hollandia Posts: 53 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Yeah I got the same problem. I had 2 C2's at the brink of sinking 500 meters from eachother. I both hitted them with 2 torps. Then when they wouldn't sink I plugged one more in both. But still after waiting for 2 days looking at these boats floating on the surface, they were still alive. I decided too leave came back a week later they where both gone and I never got the reknown. I don't like the new damage model.

04-05-06, 07:34 AM	#4
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,052 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	Next time, try to aim your torpedos to the different compartments of you target. Helps flooding the ship. The rate of flooding doesnt increase even if you launch 20 billion torpedos to the exact same spot.

04-05-06, 07:41 AM	#6
VonHelsching Ace of the Deep Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Athens, Greece Posts: 1,025 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Subserpent, The NYGM Ship Damage model used in GW is a completely new concept regarding the ship damage and it seems that a lot of time has been invested in this. I have made some small mods/fixes myself and I can hardly size the effort required for this. Only to test this thing, ship by ship, it would require weeks. The ships cannot be sunk anymore from hit points (HP), unless you fire them 20 torpedos. Now they sink. And sometimes they take a long time to sink. The deck gun can be used now only for shot under the waterline, in order to sink faster. Firing at the decks or cargo has now become useless, because all the ships now have many HPs. You see, in order to fix realism in the sinking side, you have to ruin realism in the DG side (i.e imagine what would happen in RL if a couple of 88s or even better 105s HE shells landed on the captain's deck) Anyway, the NYGM Damage system is still "draft", so my guess is that we are expecting a lot of interesting stuff in the forthcoming version 2. I am also very troubled about this, like you. I went into Dover for a harbour raid in 1939 with my IID and fired 3 torpedos on a Fiji. One impact and two magnetic, in different compartments. It just sank about ~1 meter and it stopped there for many hours; didn' touch the seafloor. I am still going to give this mod a try, but if this becomes the majority of the cases (ie 3 torpedos and waiting for many hours) I might revert to stock damage system and wait for version 2.

04-05-06, 09:07 AM	#10
cmdrk Planesman Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 184 Downloads: 3 Uploads: 0	I have not tried or read much about NYGM or GW, but by this thread I might not. It sounds like 3 torpedoes in one compartment doesn't do any more damage than 1 and that gun rounds above the waterline are just pyrotechnics. Is this right? I'm not saying stock damage modelling is great, but the above seems a bit on the opposite extreme. As a side thought, if a second depth charge hits the sub in the same compartment is more damage done?

04-05-06, 09:56 AM	#13
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,052 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	WhatÂ´s all this fuzz about!? I have had no problems with NYGM nor GW regarding the ship sinking. Can you really say that a 88mm shell to the deck structures of the ship should sink it?

04-05-06, 10:49 AM	#14
AceChilla Mate Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hollandia Posts: 53 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Mind you guys, Im not critisizing Grew Wolves or the NYGM mod. I think both are great I wouldn't go back to the stock SH3 ever. And you guys did a great job making them. Im just saying I agree the damage model kinda irritates me sometimes. I should have taken a screenshot of those 2 c2's just floating there with heavy flooding for 2 days. With me just floating next to them not knowing how to sink either of them, you would have understood :rotfl: But maybe I don't understand the mechanics well enough. For instance I did shoot the torpedo's at the same place on the ship, Right in the engine room where I always put them. Maybe if I wouldn't have done that it would have been OK. And people please. Not all people hear read the hunderds of pages of thread about all the mods coming out. My head is spinning sometimes thinking which mod does what and what are the precise effects. You can't expect everyone to know how the stuff in mods work exactly, even if most of the die-hards know it by heart. Thats why I love Grey Wolves so much, because it's all the goodies into one!