**** ! Whatta **** is matter with this scope?!?

Rosencrantz · 01-02-06, 01:57 PM

I'm starting to get ****** off with the scope of SHIII. I tried to get the range to the DD, bearing 275, about 5000 meters. To get the range is allmost impossible because the waves of half a meter height (1,5 feet)!
The target and / or my boat seems to be going up and down, up and down AND UP AND DOWN. You really have to have a good stomach if you don't want to get yourself to become seasick when looking through the scope! It's just like you would be sitting on a bull doing nasty with a cow!

I think the problem is that there is just one "system" controlling both the waves and depth of sub. That's why the horizontal line of the view is never stable. Well, maybe if the sea is frozen up!

IMO, when there is just minor waves, the horizontal line of the scope should be really stable, just waves going OVER the view if the scope is not raised enough. Especially: HALF A METER WAVES DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE THE SUB OR THE DD WITH 2000 TONS TO ROLL!

Yes. I'm complaining, Sry! I just would like to see these kind of things made properly when the SHIV will come. Hope Devs wont be just starring the graphics, like they use to do.

Ducimus · 01-02-06, 02:20 PM

What i think is pissing you off, is the constant 15 winds.

Do you have a constant 15 windspeed most of the time when on patrol? That has been my problem anyway.

Now theres a few ways to go about to "fix" this.

One way is to edit the scene.dat with TimeTravellers Tweaker or SH3 inspector and change the wave height perameter from 256 to 128.

A more rigid way to change this, and it totally kills dynamic weather is to edit your campaign SCR, RND, and LND layers and change the wind to say... 5 (nice average number.. not too calm, not too rough, or 2 if you want glassy seas with little waves)

Then edit the scene.dat again and give the values associated with wind a 0 value. This will completley kill any wind changes so you'll have a constant windspeed throughout your entire patrol. Not realistic, a bit bland, but it does get rid of the constant scope dunking.

John Channing · 01-02-06, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosencrantz

Yes. I'm complaining, Sry! I just would like to see these kind of things made properly when the SHIV will come. Hope Devs wont be just starring the graphics, like they use to do. :rock:

Actually it is modeled very well. Try spending a little time at sea. You will be suprised at what a 15 knot wind can do to a vessel.

JCC

Rosencrantz · 01-02-06, 02:38 PM

Ducimus, John!

No, no. No wind blowing 15 m/s but 5 m/s, waves from 1 to 2 feets height.

A special question to John: Have you ever got a look through the real scope, when height of the waves is about two feets? I just mean that the boat will not be rolling (going up and down with the waves) and thats why the horizontal line of the scope is stable also?!? Can you get what I mean?

Rosie

Rosencrantz · 01-02-06, 02:46 PM

And I really don't want to do any editing. Actually, I would like to see real storms, wind blowing, huge waves (not tried that big wave -mod availible). I don't mean the game should be easy one, I'm used to play these kind of sims and I like reality. But I don't think it's so realistic if my 250 tons boat is rolling on the allmost calm sea?!?

Please, just correct me if I'm totally wrong with my thoughts about the boats behavior under circumstanses pictured above.

-RC-

finchOU · 01-02-06, 03:27 PM

I've had this very question for a while....a submarine, in my mind, should get more stable the deeper it goes and the faster it goes.....on the surface...that is a totally different story...I've been at sea on a frigate to know that it does not take much to move a small vessel......

so underwater...in normal sea states (aka 1-2 meter waves)...I would think the sub would not move around that much....this is what I posted in another topic...which should be in this one:

I'm wondering about the rolling effect....I know for a fact that on the surface a boat really moves around hence a sablized UZO (I think anyways from what I remember reading) ....but once under the water I would think it would be very stable (except extremly rough seas of course)..and obviously any use of zoom would magnifly the rolling effect plus the pengilum effect of a raised periscope (think of climbing the mast of a ship in heavy seas)...still find the hardest part of the game is taking acurate distance readings under a time crunch (such as trying to get distance at an exact time for course and speed calculations)...the rolling effect while submerged is a bit of a nusence ...but if that is how it was...I'll shutup and step off the soapbox.

as of now I do most of my calcuations on the surface it being early war times...but later on, all of this will have to be done at P-scope depth due to radar.

Hartmann · 01-02-06, 04:08 PM

The weather campaign values with Rand in the Scr and Rnd are the probability of change, ... winrand ,fog rand..
0 ,no changes. 3 a lot of changes.

The values without Rand are the starting campaign values, you can set the weather that you want at the start of the patrol,

i change that because i was tired of departs always in sunny and calm weather :rotfl: :rotfl:

i kwow because is the same system that the single player campaigns, and the editor show the values.

drEaPer · 01-02-06, 04:42 PM

A little "exploit" to help you out here:
When the scope is lining up with the waterline of the ship, press BACKSPACE to pause the game. You cannot change to another station or fire torpedos, but you can enter the rangefinder and because the screen is not moving in pause-mode you can easily place the line to determine the range.

cheers

John Channing · 01-02-06, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosencrantz

Ducimus, John!

No, no. No wind blowing 15 m/s but 5 m/s, waves from 1 to 2 feets height.

A special question to John: Have you ever got a look through the real scope, when height of the waves is about two feets? I just mean that the boat will not be rolling (going up and down with the waves) and thats why the horizontal line of the scope is stable also?!? Can you get what I mean?

Rosie

Well, any boat I have been on, offshore, rolls when it is a slow speed. And that is with 2/3's of the boat out of the water. The same forces that affect a surface vessel would be multiplied in a submarine at PD at slow speed.

JCC

Rosencrantz · 01-02-06, 04:55 PM

Thanks John!

I think I'm with finchOU in this. This got me really interested in. Trying to find it out, what it really should looklike.

(And, after starting my whining, I feel like I would be driving with Ferrari when on the sea. These boats accelerate PRETTY fast... Just 20 or 25 seconds from 0 to 13 knots with II-class boat. Some lorry driver could have a problem with me and my boat... :rotfl: )

Rosencrantz · 01-02-06, 05:16 PM

Just asked some info from the guy who has served in subs. Because boats since WWII are much bigger, he wasn't sure, but he thought even a small boat should be quite stable in PD if there is waves just 2 feet heigh.

Deimos01 · 01-02-06, 09:20 PM

How bout just checking the stabilize veiw setting in options. Playing at high realism is cool and all but if its ruining your gameplay...well..... :hmm:

don1reed · 01-03-06, 08:31 AM

Rosie--

When the WX is poopy and the target is bouncing around in the scope...

don't try to to measure it's vertical height; Instead:

Measure it's length. The same formula applies.

-...-

Both height and length are provided in the recognition manual.

Cheers,

wetwarev7 · 01-03-06, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deimos01

How bout just checking the stabilize veiw setting in options. Playing at high realism is cool and all but if its ruining your gameplay...well..... :hmm:

I'm with you on this one. I turned it on when I went out on my last mission, and I'll never turn it on again! I was getting motion sickness just trying to line up a shot.....

Wolfram · 01-03-06, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Channing

....Actually it is modeled very well. Try spending a little time at sea. You will be suprised at what a 15 knot wind can do to a vessel. JCC...

First time for me on the North Atlantic was about 100km West Northwest of Olafsvik (look on a map of Iceland Northwest of Reykjavik). It was summer well what they call summer on a tourist boat (converted hunter) watching whales. About blew my lunch even with Dramamine. Captain said it was a calm day but the deck was still pitching and yawing.

Can only imagine being in a tin can a few meters below the surface looking through a small piece of glass would have to be hard.....

:hmm: maybe SHIV should come with a hydraulic chair?

01-02-06, 01:57 PM	#1
Rosencrantz Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 758 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	** ! Whatta is matter with this scope?!? I'm starting to get **** off with the scope of SHIII. I tried to get the range to the DD, bearing 275, about 5000 meters. To get the range is allmost impossible because the waves of half a meter height (1,5 feet)! The target and / or my boat seems to be going up and down, up and down AND UP AND DOWN. You really have to have a good stomach if you don't want to get yourself to become seasick when looking through the scope! It's just like you would be sitting on a bull doing nasty with a cow! I think the problem is that there is just one "system" controlling both the waves and depth of sub. That's why the horizontal line of the view is never stable. Well, maybe if the sea is frozen up! IMO, when there is just minor waves, the horizontal line of the scope should be really stable, just waves going OVER the view if the scope is not raised enough. Especially: HALF A METER WAVES DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO MAKE THE SUB OR THE DD WITH 2000 TONS TO ROLL! Yes. I'm complaining, Sry! I just would like to see these kind of things made properly when the SHIV will come. Hope Devs wont be just starring the graphics, like they use to do.

01-02-06, 04:08 PM	#7
Hartmann Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Grid CH 26, Spain ,Barcelona Posts: 1,857 Downloads: 204 Uploads: 0	The weather campaign values with Rand in the Scr and Rnd are the probability of change, ... winrand ,fog rand.. 0 ,no changes. 3 a lot of changes. The values without Rand are the starting campaign values, you can set the weather that you want at the start of the patrol, i change that because i was tired of departs always in sunny and calm weather :rotfl: :rotfl: i kwow because is the same system that the single player campaigns, and the editor show the values. __________________ But this ship can't sink!... She is made of iron, sir. I assure you, she can. and she will. It is a mathematical certainty. Strength and honor

01-03-06, 08:31 AM	#13
don1reed Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Valhalla: Silent Generation Posts: 1,149 Downloads: 910 Uploads: 0	Rosie-- When the WX is poopy and the target is bouncing around in the scope... don't try to to measure it's vertical height; Instead: Measure it's length. The same formula applies. -...- Both height and length are provided in the recognition manual. Cheers, __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~ George Orwell

01-02-06, 02:20 PM	#2
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	What i think is pissing you off, is the constant 15 winds. Do you have a constant 15 windspeed most of the time when on patrol? That has been my problem anyway. Now theres a few ways to go about to "fix" this. One way is to edit the scene.dat with TimeTravellers Tweaker or SH3 inspector and change the wave height perameter from 256 to 128. A more rigid way to change this, and it totally kills dynamic weather is to edit your campaign SCR, RND, and LND layers and change the wind to say... 5 (nice average number.. not too calm, not too rough, or 2 if you want glassy seas with little waves) Then edit the scene.dat again and give the values associated with wind a 0 value. This will completley kill any wind changes so you'll have a constant windspeed throughout your entire patrol. Not realistic, a bit bland, but it does get rid of the constant scope dunking.

01-02-06, 02:38 PM	#4
Rosencrantz Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 758 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Ducimus, John! No, no. No wind blowing 15 m/s but 5 m/s, waves from 1 to 2 feets height. A special question to John: Have you ever got a look through the real scope, when height of the waves is about two feets? I just mean that the boat will not be rolling (going up and down with the waves) and thats why the horizontal line of the scope is stable also?!? Can you get what I mean? Rosie

01-02-06, 02:46 PM	#5
Rosencrantz Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 758 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	And I really don't want to do any editing. Actually, I would like to see real storms, wind blowing, huge waves (not tried that big wave -mod availible). I don't mean the game should be easy one, I'm used to play these kind of sims and I like reality. But I don't think it's so realistic if my 250 tons boat is rolling on the allmost calm sea?!? Please, just correct me if I'm totally wrong with my thoughts about the boats behavior under circumstanses pictured above. -RC-

01-02-06, 03:27 PM	#6
finchOU Samurai Navy Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 571 Downloads: 77 Uploads: 0	I've had this very question for a while....a submarine, in my mind, should get more stable the deeper it goes and the faster it goes.....on the surface...that is a totally different story...I've been at sea on a frigate to know that it does not take much to move a small vessel...... so underwater...in normal sea states (aka 1-2 meter waves)...I would think the sub would not move around that much....this is what I posted in another topic...which should be in this one: I'm wondering about the rolling effect....I know for a fact that on the surface a boat really moves around hence a sablized UZO (I think anyways from what I remember reading) ....but once under the water I would think it would be very stable (except extremly rough seas of course)..and obviously any use of zoom would magnifly the rolling effect plus the pengilum effect of a raised periscope (think of climbing the mast of a ship in heavy seas)...still find the hardest part of the game is taking acurate distance readings under a time crunch (such as trying to get distance at an exact time for course and speed calculations)...the rolling effect while submerged is a bit of a nusence ...but if that is how it was...I'll shutup and step off the soapbox. as of now I do most of my calcuations on the surface it being early war times...but later on, all of this will have to be done at P-scope depth due to radar.

01-02-06, 04:42 PM	#8
drEaPer Navy Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Germany Posts: 176 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	A little "exploit" to help you out here: When the scope is lining up with the waterline of the ship, press BACKSPACE to pause the game. You cannot change to another station or fire torpedos, but you can enter the rangefinder and because the screen is not moving in pause-mode you can easily place the line to determine the range. cheers

01-02-06, 04:55 PM	#10
Rosencrantz Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 758 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Thanks John! I think I'm with finchOU in this. This got me really interested in. Trying to find it out, what it really should looklike. (And, after starting my whining, I feel like I would be driving with Ferrari when on the sea. These boats accelerate PRETTY fast... Just 20 or 25 seconds from 0 to 13 knots with II-class boat. Some lorry driver could have a problem with me and my boat... :rotfl: )

01-02-06, 05:16 PM	#11
Rosencrantz Grey Wolf Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Finland Posts: 758 Downloads: 78 Uploads: 0	Just asked some info from the guy who has served in subs. Because boats since WWII are much bigger, he wasn't sure, but he thought even a small boat should be quite stable in PD if there is waves just 2 feet heigh.

01-02-06, 09:20 PM	#12
Deimos01 Frogman Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: St louis Posts: 304 Downloads: 18 Uploads: 0	How bout just checking the stabilize veiw setting in options. Playing at high realism is cool and all but if its ruining your gameplay...well..... :hmm: