Islamic extremism and the theory of a Clash of Civilizations

[Konovalov]

I am curious as to where people stand regarding the thesis written by Samuel P. Huntington, author of “The Clash of Civilizations?� I ask this in light of the current debate regarding Islam which every few months seems be debated on this forum. If you could respond to the poll and give your reasons for or against this theory then it would be most appreciated.

[August]

I voted "not sure". So many paths are not taken when only one path can be chosen.

[Type941]

I believe that there is already a clash of civilizations, otherwise there wouldn't have been a discussion on it. However I have to read the abstract you;re referring to to make up my mind on what he's saying.

[The Avon Lady]

The dream of the Caliphate has been revived. It is believed to be within grasp.

The world's opening up the doors of immigration to Muslims for the past 30 years is the Trojan horse. Shar'ia is just a decade or two of democratic elections away in some European countries.

Yet, this cannot be called civilization, by any stretch of the meaning of the word.

[FesterShinetop]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Yet, this cannot be called civilization, by any stretch of the meaning of the word.

That is just sickening... I just can not believe how someone could do something like that!

[Skybird]

Yes.

I'm currently working on an according XXXL-sized text since some time, so my reasons will be available for download in one or two weeks. Think I will not raise your sympathy with it, Konovalov, but I hope we could remain friends then

[Iceman]

What a sad Pic Avon Lady....God was and is watching that stuff...Time....Time is almost up. 8 yrs old...an 8 yr old barely has a concept of the law....and according to Christian scripture where no knowledge of the law is there is no transgression...so that guy did that to an innocent creature.

Angels in Heaven are being made ready for battle.

Harvest time.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Yes.

I'm currently working on an according XXXL-sized text since some time, so my reasons will be available for download in one or two weeks. Think I will not raise your sympathy with it, Konovalov, but I hope we could remain friends then

I look forward to reading it. I'm sure we will continue to be so.

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Yet, this cannot be called civilization, by any stretch of the meaning of the word.

That is a disgrace. I would also add is this civilization? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...nda/html/7.stm and was the worlds response to this genocide that as from civilized nations with the woefully inadequate response?

And are these the acts of civilized societies? http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/thisiswar/

I take it that you voted yes to the poll question?

[The Avon Lady]

Originally Posted by Konovalov

That is a disgrace. I would also add is this civilization? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...nda/html/7.stm and was the worlds response to this genocide that as from civilized nations with the woefully inadequate response?

And are these the acts of civilized societies? http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/thisiswar/

Surah 5, verse 38:

As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.

You don't get it, do you? Are your links the results of religious or philosophical or institutionalized convictions? Do national and religious leaders advocate intentionally inflicting such acts on others?

You just don't get it.

I take it that you voted yes to the poll question?

Yes.

[Psycluded]

Yanno, I've never actually read the qu'ran. Gonna pick up a copy and read that thing, maybe then I'll actually be able to contribute something meaningful to a discussion about Islam...

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

Surah 5, verse 38:

As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.

You don't get it, do you? Are your links the results of religious or philosophical or institutionalized convictions? Do national and religious leaders advocate intentionally inflicting such acts on others?

You just don't get it.

Yes.

The reference to male or female in the Holy Qu'ran for the Surah and Ayah that you quoted tie in with the Sharia and this is applicable if that person is a healthy adault, i.e. NOT a minor or a mentally disturbed person. This rule applies to hadd or hudud, tazir, and qisas crimes which are basically the groupings for the seriousness of the crime.

And further with regards to Ayah 38 of Surah 5 where this part of the Qu'ran touches on jurisprudence. The Canon Law jurists are not unanimous as to the value of the property stolen, but the vast majority hold that petty thefts are exempt from punishment such as the cutting off of a hand.

Perhaps you don't get it AL. May be you should stick to the Torah and Halacha.

[Konovalov]

Originally Posted by Psycluded

Yanno, I've never actually read the qu'ran. Gonna pick up a copy and read that thing, maybe then I'll actually be able to contribute something meaningful to a discussion about Islam...

An excellent English translation is by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. At minimum make sure that you get a copy that has commentary and footnotes. In that way it will make it easier for you to formulate your own opinion and come to your own conclusions.

[Psycluded]

It's about the only holy book other than Hindi sutras that I haven't read... Bible, Torah (through my Hebrew-fluent Dad), Tao Te Ching, many different writings by Shintoists and Buddhists in Japan (been studying martial arts since I was able to read "Charlotte's Web"), and numberous studies on the cultural differences and similarities of orthodox christianity, catholicism and protestantism. About time I picked this one up, as it seems more appropriate due to the world political scene at this time.

Without making any judgements on Islamic culture or what-not, I will say that from all I've read, the jihdists seem to be hell-bent on prosecuding a complete culture war on all things christian/jewish/western. To borrow from Orson Scott Card, our inability to communicate effectively (which implies truthfulness) would argue for declaring the jihadists "Varelse". I have yet to see an instance where negotiations with a terrorist party led to anything other than compromise of the victim position, and the terrorists breaking faith entirely.

[Kissaki]

Originally Posted by The Avon Lady

You don't get it, do you? Are your links the results of religious or philosophical or institutionalized convictions? Do national and religious leaders advocate intentionally inflicting such acts on others?

You just don't get it.

Can your own motives for posting your link withstand the same scrutiny?

Forgive me for saying so, but you haven't exactly analyzed Islam from more than one angle. What is pictured in your link is indeed an atrocity, but it's not Islam. If it was, you'd see it in every Muslim country. But you don't. What you see in that picture is one aspect of that particular nation's culture. Sure, religion and culture affect eachother, but that only goes to show that the danger lies in the interpretation - and both the Bible and the Torah could potentially be interpreted in a similar fashion. What about what Jesus said - if your right hand offends you, cut it off? A brutal culture might be inclined to interpret that quite literally.

PS: I'm curious as to where the Koran advocates crushing arms under the weight of trucks? This goes to illustrate my point that culture forms religion more often than the other way around.

[mog]

Voted no. Even if Muslim immigrants are the "indigestible minority" that Huntington claims they are, there will be a backlash from the natives long before Muslims become a significant political force. As the indigestible minority grows bigger, resentment against them grows in parallel, leading to an increase in support for fringe anti-immigration parties. The policies of the major parties then evolve toward tougher immigration laws in order to recapture these lost voters.