Convoy spacing

BladeHeart · 09-16-05, 12:11 PM

Asssuming that IC, etc have not altered this, does anyone know off the top of their heads what the spacing between the ships are within a convoy, rows and cloumns?

Thanks

Marhkimov · 09-16-05, 01:07 PM

Well, off the top of my head...

Default spacing is usually 500m between ships, in each and every direction (i.e. 500m from the nearest ship in the front/back/side).

But it is highly recomended that you download an improved convoy mod, or RUb for that matter, because that would cause most or all of the spacing to be 900m... Which, if it is or isn't realistic, i don't know, but it does make it easier for the game A.I. to navigate their ships... You know, when you go around creating traffic jams with your torpedoes!

BladeHeart · 09-16-05, 02:16 PM

Thanks

Kalach · 09-16-05, 05:25 PM

Indeed, the improved convoy spacing lets me move through a convoy without turning to see the pointy end if a C3 filling up my scope

Wulfmann · 09-17-05, 11:46 AM

When Jason went to 900 for spacing I did also for my own custom RND file.
However, what I found was this moved the escorts too far away and I could sneak in to a convoy, keep my periscope low sink ships with 5 torpedoes, go off silent, reload and continue shooting without the escorts coming in after me. If you like that; 900 is the way to go.
I did not think that was very RUBish.
Actual convoys kept about 400 meters (As I read in two sources). Problem with 400 is when a convoy reaches a waypoint they bunch up and it takes hours for them to sort it out, very unRUBish as well.
So, I went to 500 or 600 (variation) which has worked very well.
I ran my first patrol with a highly experienced crew, sunk one ship and was pounced by three escorts and sunk. I was pleased and p**ssed at the same time.
I now must remain on silent and can only fire the 5 fish or will be detected too quickly (even them I have been detected without firing) and the escorts being closer makes it much more difficult.
I prefer it more on the edge as I have also made all my escorts 3 or 4 crew ratings (veteran or elite)
I have done more than 30 patrols this way and it is much harder which is more exciting, IMO
It is very easy to change your distances in any RND.mis file. The convoys are RND groups 61-118 and at the beginning of each convoy you can see the spacing which you simply change if you like. Make a back up copy, change the new one and try it. For the RND file it is one of the easier changes you can make.

Wulfmann

BladeHeart · 09-17-05, 01:34 PM

Wulfmann,

Thanks for an intersting insight. Jason if you are reading this thread I would very much like to hear your views.

Just about to engage a convoy and must admit I too have noticed an ease with which I can sneak pass the lead escort. I was beginning to think I was getting good at this.

Cheers

jasonb885 · 09-17-05, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfmann

...
Actual convoys kept about 400 meters (As I read in two sources). Problem with 400 is when a convoy reaches a waypoint they bunch up and it takes hours for them to sort it out, very unRUBish as well.
So, I went to 500 or 600 (variation) which has worked very well.
...
Wulfmann

Thank you.

I have long felt that 900 is too much, but I haven't heard anyone say much about it so I haven't changed it. I think I may change it to 600 or 700. (The default is usually 500 I believe.)

Wulfmann · 09-17-05, 10:34 PM

The default ranges from 400 (those are those convoys that go crazy when they reach a waypoint, you know the ones!) up to 800 on a few. But, I have recently read they tried to maintain 400 because when weather turned bad they could not keep in touch with longer distances. But with 400 making a mess I changed them all to 500 or 600, no set reason, just to vary.
It has worked out very well as I have a very tough time staying undetected and simply are set on by the escorts. You can go for a while if you play it very careful but after the first fish it is rare they do not start to move on you.
I have also put in that reduced tonnage mod because I was sinking ships at a rate of the 3 top aces combined and that with all these extra fixes to make it harder. I reduced his small tanker to 3500 tons though as he had upped that one.
Wish we had a few more models. I think I will add the Serg one from the armed merchant cruiser but reduce the tonnage to like 5,000 tons.
Maybe I will do a new RND so that is in most of the convoys as a merchant ship.
I am trying to have my scores reflect the best aces and not the better of the whole Kreigsmarine. :rotfl:
But, I have adjusted the cfg files so I get renown in the same amounts compared with before so there is no penalty to upgrade.
I was so pleased to only get 5 ships of 17,600 tons tonight, the worst tonnage I can remember in quite a while and I worked my butt off to get those.

Wulfmann

Kalach · 09-18-05, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfmann

I was so pleased to only get 5 ships of 17,600 tons tonight, the worst tonnage I can remember in quite a while and I worked my butt off to get those.

Wulfmann

I assume you're in a IX then, It's a bit too good for a 'low' II score

I'm also experimenting with lowering renown rewarded or increasing the price of sailors/equipment, so it doesn't seem you can buy the best boat of the fleet and be the hero of the KM

thasaint · 09-18-05, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulfmann

When Jason went to 900 for spacing I did also for my own custom RND file.
However, what I found was this moved the escorts too far away and I could sneak in to a convoy, keep my periscope low sink ships with 5 torpedoes, go off silent, reload and continue shooting without the escorts coming in after me. If you like that; 900 is the way to go.
I did not think that was very RUBish...

Wulfmann

i've had the same happen on a couple of occasions, depending on convoy size, though i didn't reload, i usually didn't figure it out till i was already diving deep n moving away from the convoy after launching my fish

Wulfmann · 09-18-05, 09:39 AM

I started with a TypeVIIB and switched to a "C" after patrol #2 starting in 1940 (I usually start in 39 but thought I would give the other losers like Prein and Kretschmer a head start on scoring :rotfl: )
3 patrols and 95,000 tons. I expect to be lead scorer by mid 1941.

Has anyone ever tried adding antisub craft in the middle of a convoy? You would have to make them "not" escorts in the RND group for them to be so placed. But, this might make it more difficult.

My motive is to force realistic difficulties which by the way SH3 works does not seem attainable. I just wondered if I increased the escorts outside and added armed trawlers with DCs inside the convoy if that would make it so I just could not have these high scores.

Even with serious tonnage reductions I am over 30K average and before doing that my last 16 patrols with normal tonnage was 600K of which 3 patrols were with a Type II. 13 patrols in a typeVII for 530K is over 40K per patrol playing at 100% with all escorts at 3 or 4 crew rating. Too much!!!!
Kretschmer sank 44 ships in 16 patrols for 266K (grt) ((some say 256K)) and that was the highest in WWII
So, I sank 50% more ships and 2 1/2 times the tonnage.
With this new lower average I will be double Kretschmer at 16 patrols.
It seems to me 250K at 16 patrols should be very hard to do but that is far from the case. Even at 100% that would be considered a very low score in SH3

I reduced the tonnage, now I need to make it harder for me to sink ships. If I have to increase the number of escorts to levels too high, well being my tonnage levels are too high and that ain't right either so it might balance the reality of results.

Does the search ever end?

And, if it does will that cause me to lose interest? :hmm:

Is it perfection we seek or the fun of achieving it?

Wulfmann

thasaint · 09-18-05, 01:35 PM

perhaps just running into too many ships n convoys, because i'm having the same experiences, average around 30k per patrol, and using all torps with a very high hit percentage... although if you were returning to base after only encountering a couple of ships, wouldn't that make the game much more boring? fine line there

i thought subs returned to base with torps remaining often, but i rarely do, i'm usually tripping over convoys with RuB and improved convoys latest version. I very rarely make it to my patrol grid without running into a convoy

Bungo_Pete · 09-18-05, 06:30 PM

Kalach · 09-18-05, 07:20 PM

Why don't you do what I did, start a career as a DD-hunter

. I'm using a IID and sinking all the destroyers I come across. More challenge, less tonage

gdogghenrikson · 09-18-05, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalach

Why don't you do what I did, start a career as a DD-hunter

. I'm using a IID and sinking all the destroyers I come across. More challenge, less tonage

how do you sink DD's, if you are that good you should make a tutotial for dummys like me
me=

09-16-05, 12:11 PM	#1
BladeHeart Chief Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Convoy spacing Asssuming that IC, etc have not altered this, does anyone know off the top of their heads what the spacing between the ships are within a convoy, rows and cloumns? Thanks

09-16-05, 05:25 PM	#4
Kalach Weps Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 366 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Indeed, the improved convoy spacing lets me move through a convoy without turning to see the pointy end if a C3 filling up my scope __________________

09-17-05, 11:46 AM	#5
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	When Jason went to 900 for spacing I did also for my own custom RND file. However, what I found was this moved the escorts too far away and I could sneak in to a convoy, keep my periscope low sink ships with 5 torpedoes, go off silent, reload and continue shooting without the escorts coming in after me. If you like that; 900 is the way to go. I did not think that was very RUBish. Actual convoys kept about 400 meters (As I read in two sources). Problem with 400 is when a convoy reaches a waypoint they bunch up and it takes hours for them to sort it out, very unRUBish as well. So, I went to 500 or 600 (variation) which has worked very well. I ran my first patrol with a highly experienced crew, sunk one ship and was pounced by three escorts and sunk. I was pleased and pssed at the same time. I now must remain on silent and can only fire the 5 fish or will be detected too quickly (even them I have been detected without firing) and the escorts being closer makes it much more difficult. I prefer it more on the edge as I have also made all my escorts 3 or 4 crew ratings (veteran or elite) I have done more than 30 patrols this way and it is much harder which is more exciting, IMO It is very easy to change your distances in any RND.mis file. The convoys are RND groups 61-118 and at the beginning of each convoy you can see the spacing which you simply change if you like. Make a back up copy, change the new one and try it. For the RND file it is one of the easier changes you can make. Wulfmann** __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

09-17-05, 10:34 PM	#8
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	The default ranges from 400 (those are those convoys that go crazy when they reach a waypoint, you know the ones!) up to 800 on a few. But, I have recently read they tried to maintain 400 because when weather turned bad they could not keep in touch with longer distances. But with 400 making a mess I changed them all to 500 or 600, no set reason, just to vary. It has worked out very well as I have a very tough time staying undetected and simply are set on by the escorts. You can go for a while if you play it very careful but after the first fish it is rare they do not start to move on you. I have also put in that reduced tonnage mod because I was sinking ships at a rate of the 3 top aces combined and that with all these extra fixes to make it harder. I reduced his small tanker to 3500 tons though as he had upped that one. Wish we had a few more models. I think I will add the Serg one from the armed merchant cruiser but reduce the tonnage to like 5,000 tons. Maybe I will do a new RND so that is in most of the convoys as a merchant ship. I am trying to have my scores reflect the best aces and not the better of the whole Kreigsmarine. :rotfl: But, I have adjusted the cfg files so I get renown in the same amounts compared with before so there is no penalty to upgrade. I was so pleased to only get 5 ships of 17,600 tons tonight, the worst tonnage I can remember in quite a while and I worked my butt off to get those. Wulfmann __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

09-18-05, 09:39 AM	#11
Wulfmann Ace of the Deep Join Date: May 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 1,010 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	I started with a TypeVIIB and switched to a "C" after patrol #2 starting in 1940 (I usually start in 39 but thought I would give the other losers like Prein and Kretschmer a head start on scoring :rotfl: ) 3 patrols and 95,000 tons. I expect to be lead scorer by mid 1941. Has anyone ever tried adding antisub craft in the middle of a convoy? You would have to make them "not" escorts in the RND group for them to be so placed. But, this might make it more difficult. My motive is to force realistic difficulties which by the way SH3 works does not seem attainable. I just wondered if I increased the escorts outside and added armed trawlers with DCs inside the convoy if that would make it so I just could not have these high scores. Even with serious tonnage reductions I am over 30K average and before doing that my last 16 patrols with normal tonnage was 600K of which 3 patrols were with a Type II. 13 patrols in a typeVII for 530K is over 40K per patrol playing at 100% with all escorts at 3 or 4 crew rating. Too much!!!! Kretschmer sank 44 ships in 16 patrols for 266K (grt) ((some say 256K)) and that was the highest in WWII So, I sank 50% more ships and 2 1/2 times the tonnage. With this new lower average I will be double Kretschmer at 16 patrols. It seems to me 250K at 16 patrols should be very hard to do but that is far from the case. Even at 100% that would be considered a very low score in SH3 I reduced the tonnage, now I need to make it harder for me to sink ships. If I have to increase the number of escorts to levels too high, well being my tonnage levels are too high and that ain't right either so it might balance the reality of results. Does the search ever end? And, if it does will that cause me to lose interest? :hmm: Is it perfection we seek or the fun of achieving it? Wulfmann __________________ "The right to keep and bear arms should not be infringed upon, if only to prevent tyranny in government" Thomas Jefferson,; Constitutional debates

09-16-05, 01:07 PM	#2
Marhkimov Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bay Area, California, USA Posts: 2,377 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Well, off the top of my head... Default spacing is usually 500m between ships, in each and every direction (i.e. 500m from the nearest ship in the front/back/side). But it is highly recomended that you download an improved convoy mod, or RUb for that matter, because that would cause most or all of the spacing to be 900m... Which, if it is or isn't realistic, i don't know, but it does make it easier for the game A.I. to navigate their ships... You know, when you go around creating traffic jams with your torpedoes! __________________ It takes two to tango

09-16-05, 02:16 PM	#3
BladeHeart Chief Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Thanks

09-17-05, 01:34 PM	#6
BladeHeart Chief Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 320 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Wulfmann, Thanks for an intersting insight. Jason if you are reading this thread I would very much like to hear your views. Just about to engage a convoy and must admit I too have noticed an ease with which I can sneak pass the lead escort. I was beginning to think I was getting good at this. Cheers

09-18-05, 01:35 PM	#12
thasaint Medic Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: New York City, USA Posts: 163 Downloads: 116 Uploads: 0	perhaps just running into too many ships n convoys, because i'm having the same experiences, average around 30k per patrol, and using all torps with a very high hit percentage... although if you were returning to base after only encountering a couple of ships, wouldn't that make the game much more boring? fine line there i thought subs returned to base with torps remaining often, but i rarely do, i'm usually tripping over convoys with RuB and improved convoys latest version. I very rarely make it to my patrol grid without running into a convoy

09-18-05, 06:30 PM	#13
Bungo_Pete Medic Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara,calif Posts: 159 Downloads: 14 Uploads: 0

09-18-05, 07:20 PM	#14
Kalach Weps Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Australia Posts: 366 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	Why don't you do what I did, start a career as a DD-hunter . I'm using a IID and sinking all the destroyers I come across. More challenge, less tonage __________________