Good news for Sonalysts

To be · 01-12-08, 02:28 PM

From the main subsim page, it seems Sonalysts got a 11.4 million dollar military contract. That should be good for them, and what is good for them, is no doubt good for us, as we are just a small subset of their buisness. So congrats from me, Sonalysts.

link to story

sonar732 · 01-12-08, 02:54 PM

Well, not that I'm standing behind them, but it could explain the lack of their employees from participating in this forum. Hopefully, this could fair well as the article specifically states "Derived from commercial gaming products developed over the years by the Waterford company".

Sea Demon · 01-12-08, 03:59 PM

Congratulations Sonalysts. Good work!

OneShot · 01-12-08, 04:27 PM

Interesting ... btw. for those who didnt know that particular tidbit yet ...

Quote:

Through the research program, Sonalysts first proved the feasibility of its product, then developed a prototype, and now has been awarded the contract to continue producing and marketing the teaching tool, Goldsmith said. The Navy has recognized the result as a “success story.”

DW itself was a Feasibility Study ...

Rotary Crewman · 01-12-08, 04:32 PM

Does that mean we're heading towards more controllable platforms? Including a Nimrod and Merlin Mk1?

Congrats by the way

Zachstar · 01-12-08, 07:00 PM

Don't count on it at all.

Look at the above quote. It is no wonder the graphics were not high on the list. DW was simply a way to convince the Navy this was feasible.

What they earned on DW was burger money compared to the contract they got.

Yes they may come in and say "We love our users and possibly in the future we may get more platforms out" or whatever, however, it is a waste of time and a waste of employee money. Remember that what the Navy gets and what WE get is totally different.

If the DoD allows them too.. They ought to just stop selling DW and get part of the source code out. This may allow others to get new platforms in legally.

What they MAY want to do to make a tiny bit of money is make a deal with Valve to be paid 5 thousand or so to allow all their products to be made free on steam and valve stamped on it.. This will allow some extra profit and valve will be happy to get more free stuff on Steam to get more users. Valve added HL2DM along with a demo of portal to a package that is free to Nvidia users. This is the direction I think they are taking.

It is also good for them because Sonalysts will get more users of their products which might make them be considered more in future game projects.

Otherwise I think for now... Modern submarine simulation development has all but stalled and would be dead had Dr. Sid not started his subsim project.

Congrats to yall for winning the contract! Please give us somthing to remember you by!

To be · 01-12-08, 07:27 PM

I wouldn't be so cynical, as this is the company that made not just DW, but Sub Command, Fleet Command, and 688(i) as well. It would be far easier for them to have just made a prototype, and not a game, which has the added hassles of distribution and support. Basically Sonalysts has given us these games, which gain them little, if any profit. So I would give them a little appreciation for that.

Zachstar · 01-12-08, 07:34 PM

To be fair of course. My annoyance isn't with them.. It is the industry that seems to be turning it's back of simulation development.

People like Ubisoft ought to be doing these big game simulation projects.

Anyway don't take my annoyance to mean too much... What is important now is for them to get their products out for free to keep them from drowning in the shelves of abandonware. OR get the driveable code out so DW can be maintained.

It's simple buisness. DW has had it's day and Son. has it's big contract. There is NO money in continuing to support DW.

A trickle of sales does not pay the bills for the programmers.

OlegM · 01-12-08, 08:10 PM

Indeed, how naive can you guys be? Get real. Zachstar is right, don't count on any new games or expansions. Since Jamie left SCS I don't thnk we heard a single word from anyone at Sonalysts.

Now if they won Big Money contract to develop something for the Navy they have even less motive to work on commercial products, that need to be marketed, supported, demoed, patched, and "defended" from a VERY demanding group of customers who always want more and complain what they have is not "realistic enough".

What they earned from us is peanuts, it always was peanuts, and with this contract in their pockets it will by comparison be even smaller peanuts.

For us gamers SCS is dead, we will most probably never see another game from them.

BTW this message is not a whine. I am thankful to Jamie personally, and to SCS for all the wonderful games they made and for all the good (and occassionally bad) time I had with them. DW is still on my PC and will remain.... probably for years to come.

I just lost any hope we will ever see another game or expansion from SCS. You better lose it too, and move on.

To be · 01-12-08, 08:14 PM

It has been less than 3 years since DW came out, and already the thought that they are obligated to create a new game for you, or else they are the "Bad Guys" who are just in it for the military contracts. Well, that IS their business, and the fact that they made any games at all is sometime you should be appreciative for, and hope they do again, not assume that by not they are abandoning you. They are not a game company.

OlegM · 01-12-08, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by To be

It has been less than 3 years since DW came out, and already the thought that they are obligated to create a new game for you, or else they are the "Bad Guys" who are just in it for the military contracts. Well, that IS their business, and the fact that they made any games at all is sometime you should be appreciative for, and hope they do again, not assume that by not they are abandoning you. They are not a game company.

Where did I say that they are obligated to do anything? They are not obligated to do a new game. They are not bad guys. And they are not a game company (although a small "subset" called SCS WAS actually a game company but it was completely marginalized from the beginning).

I was just setting the record straight. They are not obligated to do anything, and neither they will. Don't expect anything, and certainly not as direct result of this contract (perhaps only the opposite - the commercial game was never further away).

GlobalExplorer · 01-12-08, 08:55 PM

Bohemia Interactive also has a business model in which they develop software for the military and some years later move the improvements into games. So it can work this way.

But I dont expect anything from Sonalysts myself. DW revenue must have been very meagre.

OlegM · 01-12-08, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalExplorer

Bohemia Interactive also has a business model in which they develop software for the military and some years later move the improvements into games. So it can work this way.

Yes and the first commercial game BI released after "going military" (ArmA) is so crap I was paralysed when I first tried the demo. It was god-awful. Beyond words awful. Unspeakably awful.

Couple dozen patches later it's still pretty bad.

I cannot imagine military customers paying for that. In fact, on second thought, perhaps it's EXACTLY military that would pay for such crap

Zachstar · 01-12-08, 10:05 PM

Well to get the topic back on track.

Who else thinks that they ought to get the games out for free on Steam? Obviously there is little point is continuing to maintain and sell it of course.

Now that I think about it, Now they will be even LESS willing to get the platform source code out. They want the money to continue to flow in afterwards and allowing the military to create playables may threaten to reduce their future contracts.

Free on Steam. Let valve buy the rights to market it for free and be done with it.

NefariousKoel · 01-13-08, 02:28 AM

Grats to Sonalysts.

01-12-08, 02:28 PM	#1
To be Electrician's Mate Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 140 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Good news for Sonalysts From the main subsim page, it seems Sonalysts got a 11.4 million dollar military contract. That should be good for them, and what is good for them, is no doubt good for us, as we are just a small subset of their buisness. So congrats from me, Sonalysts. link to story

01-12-08, 02:54 PM	#2
sonar732 The Old Man Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Central MO Posts: 1,562 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Could Explain... Well, not that I'm standing behind them, but it could explain the lack of their employees from participating in this forum. Hopefully, this could fair well as the article specifically states "Derived from commercial gaming products developed over the years by the Waterford company".

01-12-08, 04:32 PM	#5
Rotary Crewman Sonar Guy Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The cold part of a Helicopter, the back. Posts: 395 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Does that mean we're heading towards more controllable platforms? Including a Nimrod and Merlin Mk1? Congrats by the way __________________

01-12-08, 07:00 PM	#6
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Don't count on it at all. Look at the above quote. It is no wonder the graphics were not high on the list. DW was simply a way to convince the Navy this was feasible. What they earned on DW was burger money compared to the contract they got. Yes they may come in and say "We love our users and possibly in the future we may get more platforms out" or whatever, however, it is a waste of time and a waste of employee money. Remember that what the Navy gets and what WE get is totally different. If the DoD allows them too.. They ought to just stop selling DW and get part of the source code out. This may allow others to get new platforms in legally. What they MAY want to do to make a tiny bit of money is make a deal with Valve to be paid 5 thousand or so to allow all their products to be made free on steam and valve stamped on it.. This will allow some extra profit and valve will be happy to get more free stuff on Steam to get more users. Valve added HL2DM along with a demo of portal to a package that is free to Nvidia users. This is the direction I think they are taking. It is also good for them because Sonalysts will get more users of their products which might make them be considered more in future game projects. Otherwise I think for now... Modern submarine simulation development has all but stalled and would be dead had Dr. Sid not started his subsim project. Congrats to yall for winning the contract! Please give us somthing to remember you by! __________________

01-12-08, 07:34 PM	#8
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	To be fair of course. My annoyance isn't with them.. It is the industry that seems to be turning it's back of simulation development. People like Ubisoft ought to be doing these big game simulation projects. Anyway don't take my annoyance to mean too much... What is important now is for them to get their products out for free to keep them from drowning in the shelves of abandonware. OR get the driveable code out so DW can be maintained. It's simple buisness. DW has had it's day and Son. has it's big contract. There is NO money in continuing to support DW. A trickle of sales does not pay the bills for the programmers. __________________

01-12-08, 03:59 PM	#3
Sea Demon Ocean Warrior Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: USA Posts: 2,552 Downloads: 33 Uploads: 0	Congratulations Sonalysts. Good work!

01-12-08, 07:27 PM	#7
To be Electrician's Mate Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 140 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	I wouldn't be so cynical, as this is the company that made not just DW, but Sub Command, Fleet Command, and 688(i) as well. It would be far easier for them to have just made a prototype, and not a game, which has the added hassles of distribution and support. Basically Sonalysts has given us these games, which gain them little, if any profit. So I would give them a little appreciation for that.

01-12-08, 08:10 PM	#9
OlegM Engineer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 214 Downloads: 7 Uploads: 0	Indeed, how naive can you guys be? Get real. Zachstar is right, don't count on any new games or expansions. Since Jamie left SCS I don't thnk we heard a single word from anyone at Sonalysts. Now if they won Big Money contract to develop something for the Navy they have even less motive to work on commercial products, that need to be marketed, supported, demoed, patched, and "defended" from a VERY demanding group of customers who always want more and complain what they have is not "realistic enough". What they earned from us is peanuts, it always was peanuts, and with this contract in their pockets it will by comparison be even smaller peanuts. For us gamers SCS is dead, we will most probably never see another game from them. BTW this message is not a whine. I am thankful to Jamie personally, and to SCS for all the wonderful games they made and for all the good (and occassionally bad) time I had with them. DW is still on my PC and will remain.... probably for years to come. I just lost any hope we will ever see another game or expansion from SCS. You better lose it too, and move on.

01-12-08, 08:14 PM	#10
To be Electrician's Mate Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 140 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	It has been less than 3 years since DW came out, and already the thought that they are obligated to create a new game for you, or else they are the "Bad Guys" who are just in it for the military contracts. Well, that IS their business, and the fact that they made any games at all is sometime you should be appreciative for, and hope they do again, not assume that by not they are abandoning you. They are not a game company.

01-12-08, 08:55 PM	#12
GlobalExplorer Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Location: Berlin Posts: 2,015 Downloads: 165 Uploads: 0	Bohemia Interactive also has a business model in which they develop software for the military and some years later move the improvements into games. So it can work this way. But I dont expect anything from Sonalysts myself. DW revenue must have been very meagre. __________________

01-12-08, 10:05 PM	#14
Zachstar Sea Lord Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shreveport, Louisiana Posts: 1,956 Downloads: 13 Uploads: 0	Well to get the topic back on track. Who else thinks that they ought to get the games out for free on Steam? Obviously there is little point is continuing to maintain and sell it of course. Now that I think about it, Now they will be even LESS willing to get the platform source code out. They want the money to continue to flow in afterwards and allowing the military to create playables may threaten to reduce their future contracts. Free on Steam. Let valve buy the rights to market it for free and be done with it. __________________

01-13-08, 02:28 AM	#15
NefariousKoel Ace of the Deep Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: No-good Missouri scum Posts: 1,223 Downloads: 43 Uploads: 0	Grats to Sonalysts. __________________ "When Gary told me he had found Jesus, I thought, Yahoo! We're rich! But it turned out to be something different." - Jack Handey