Deck gun vs. submerged speed

Woof1701 · 09-05-05, 09:45 AM

Hi there,

The last "50s deck gun reload in RUB 1.43"-thread gave me an idea. After all in later years the Germans quit using the deck guns and even started removing them.

Does anyone have any information whether the removal of the deck gun had any significant impact on the subs submerged speed and range?

AND. In case it did: Is this "modable"?

Farside · 09-05-05, 10:21 AM

what you mean is it moddable? :P , lol my VIIC doesn't have a deck gun mate (i'l get you a pic, unfortuneately, if you got a deckgun, i aint got a clue how to get rid of it all i did was change the Viic conning tower to a VIIc/3 (which allows for 2 light flaks, 1 heavy and a deckgun, so it Should be there.

rulle34 · 09-05-05, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farside

what you mean is it moddable? :P , lol my VIIC doesn't have a deck gun mate (i'l get you a pic, unfortuneately, if you got a deckgun, i aint got a clue how to get rid of it all i did was change the Viic conning tower to a VIIc/3 (which allows for 2 light flaks, 1 heavy and a deckgun, so it Should be there.

If you start a carrier in 43 you have an option to not install the deck gun (or if it's later than that date). Removing the deckgun should decrease the resistance in water, and then logically increase the submerged speed.
Logical it should, but probably not so much. Question is if it was noticable at all?? A wild guess maybe just 0,5-1 kt. If it's possible to change speed for the sub, logically it should be moddable.
Lets hear what the big modders have to say??

Col7777 · 09-05-05, 01:12 PM

If you remove your deck gun, is it not possible to alter the sub cfg to make it go that bit faster without overdoing it?

FAdmiral · 09-05-05, 01:50 PM

I have seen the text files where you can change the speed both
surfaced & submerged with the VIIC or any class for that matter.
And you Col have found a way to use the space for gun ammo
to put abaord more torps. All we need to do now is remove the
deck gun from the graphics and all reference to it....

JIM

CWorth · 09-05-05, 04:09 PM

I am wondering if you could remove the deck gun the same way you add the spotlights to the merchants..

In the submarine .eqp files this section on the VIIb

; deck mount
[Equipment 3]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=88mm_UDeck_Gun_High
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19421231

Would nulling out the LinkName line like so remove the deck gun?

; deck mount
[Equipment 3]
NodeName=M01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19421231

FAdmiral · 09-05-05, 07:34 PM

You will have to do what we did with SH2: EXPERIMENT
BUT be sure to back-up all the changes you make and only
make 1 change at a time....

JIM

CWorth · 09-05-05, 07:46 PM

I tried what I posted above and started a career in the TypeVIIb but the deck gun was still there...so there must be other files that control that part of things as well.

FAdmiral · 09-06-05, 12:03 AM

Maybe you should change the dates instead???

JIM

Col7777 · 09-06-05, 07:07 AM

I removed the deck gun experimenting with CB's mod about adding lights etc, it worked OK but I forgot what I did, I'll try again.
I also made the sub SLIGHTLY faster by altering the speeds in the sub cfg, that worked OK too.

Col7777 · 09-06-05, 08:13 AM

OK I found what I did, in the Basic.cfg I went to this line then changed it, I put semi-colons to revert back if needed:

[M01]
DaysSpent=2
NbGuns=2
Idx0=0
Dummy0=NULL ;;105mm_UDeck_Gun_High
Idx1=1
Dummy1=NULL ;;88mm_UDeck_Gun_High

Was the rear gun also removed for added speed?

Shadow9216 · 09-06-05, 09:14 AM

Another thing to consider- removing the deck gun removes extra noise caused by water flowing over and around the gun...theoretically this should reduce the accoustic signature of your boat, but I'd have no idea by how much.

Col7777 · 09-06-05, 11:08 AM

Here is one with both the guns removed:

FAdmiral · 09-06-05, 01:01 PM

Col. if you remove the gun, up the submerged speed to compensate for the decreased drag, maybe up the surface speed slightly to compensate for the decreased weight, and then use
your extra torps feature to adjust for the gun ammo that is no
longer needed, it would make for a very good type 7 boat....

JIM

PS. Not sure about the flak gun, it may still be needed sometimes.

Col7777 · 09-06-05, 01:08 PM

Hi Jim,

I already altered the sub's speed, but only slightly to compensate for the loss of drag, I mentioned it a few posts up but you may have missed it.

I'm not sure how accurate it is so if anyone else can enlighten me/us then please do, here is what I did:

[Unit]
ClassName=SSTypeIXB
HumanPlayable=YES
Interior=data/Interior/NSS_Uboat9/NSS_Uboat9
UnitType=200
MaxSpeed=19.2 ;18.2
MaxSpeedSubmerged=8.3 ;7.3
Length=76.9
Width=6
RenownAwarded=140

[Salvo]
1=1,3,2,4
2=1,2,4
3=1,3,4
4=1,4
5=2,3
6=1,3
7=2,4
8=5,6

[Properties]
PeriscopeDepth=12;meters
SnorkelDepth=10;meters
CrashDepth=70;meters
MaxDepth=300;meters
SurfaceDepth=5.8;meters
TorpLaunchMaxDepth=20;meters
StormConditions=99,1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1]

[EngineProperties]
AllStop=0.00
AheadSlow=0.50 ;0.40
AheadOneThird=0.67 ;0.57
AheadStandard=0.90 ;0.80
AheadFull=1.00 ;0.94
AheadFlank=1.05 ;1.00
BackSlow=-0.27 ;-0.26
BackStandard=-0.50 ;-0.40
BackFull=-0.63 ;-0.53
BackEmergency=-0.76 ;-0.66

I left the old speeds safely behind the semi-colons.

09-05-05, 09:45 AM	#1
Woof1701 Commodore Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Munich, Germany, Home of U-96 Posts: 633 Downloads: 9 Uploads: 0	Deck gun vs. submerged speed Hi there, The last "50s deck gun reload in RUB 1.43"-thread gave me an idea. After all in later years the Germans quit using the deck guns and even started removing them. Does anyone have any information whether the removal of the deck gun had any significant impact on the subs submerged speed and range? AND. In case it did: Is this "modable"?

09-05-05, 10:21 AM	#2
Farside Sparky Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Glasgow, Scotland Posts: 155 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	what you mean is it moddable? :P , lol my VIIC doesn't have a deck gun mate (i'l get you a pic, unfortuneately, if you got a deckgun, i aint got a clue how to get rid of it all i did was change the Viic conning tower to a VIIc/3 (which allows for 2 light flaks, 1 heavy and a deckgun, so it Should be there. __________________ Good Hunting! Torpedo Problems? Check out my thread for FAQ\'s and running depths!

09-05-05, 01:12 PM	#4
Col7777 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 944 Downloads: 260 Uploads: 0	If you remove your deck gun, is it not possible to alter the sub cfg to make it go that bit faster without overdoing it? __________________ Silent and Violent

09-05-05, 01:50 PM	#5
FAdmiral Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	I have seen the text files where you can change the speed both surfaced & submerged with the VIIC or any class for that matter. And you Col have found a way to use the space for gun ammo to put abaord more torps. All we need to do now is remove the deck gun from the graphics and all reference to it.... JIM __________________ If you\'re not taking losses, you\'re not doing enough. RAdm. Kelly Turner, USN ********************************** www.fairtax.org

09-05-05, 07:34 PM	#7
FAdmiral Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	You will have to do what we did with SH2: EXPERIMENT BUT be sure to back-up all the changes you make and only make 1 change at a time.... JIM __________________ If you\'re not taking losses, you\'re not doing enough. RAdm. Kelly Turner, USN ********************************** www.fairtax.org

09-05-05, 04:09 PM	#6
CWorth Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gettysburg PA Posts: 845 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I am wondering if you could remove the deck gun the same way you add the spotlights to the merchants.. In the submarine .eqp files this section on the VIIb ; deck mount [Equipment 3] NodeName=M01 LinkName=88mm_UDeck_Gun_High StartDate=19380101 EndDate=19421231 Would nulling out the LinkName line like so remove the deck gun? ; deck mount [Equipment 3] NodeName=M01 LinkName=NULL StartDate=19380101 EndDate=19421231

09-05-05, 07:46 PM	#8
CWorth Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Gettysburg PA Posts: 845 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I tried what I posted above and started a career in the TypeVIIb but the deck gun was still there...so there must be other files that control that part of things as well.

09-06-05, 12:03 AM	#9
FAdmiral Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Maybe you should change the dates instead??? JIM __________________ If you\'re not taking losses, you\'re not doing enough. RAdm. Kelly Turner, USN ********************************** www.fairtax.org

09-06-05, 07:07 AM	#10
Col7777 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 944 Downloads: 260 Uploads: 0	I removed the deck gun experimenting with CB's mod about adding lights etc, it worked OK but I forgot what I did, I'll try again. I also made the sub SLIGHTLY faster by altering the speeds in the sub cfg, that worked OK too. __________________ Silent and Violent

09-06-05, 08:13 AM	#11
Col7777 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 944 Downloads: 260 Uploads: 0	OK I found what I did, in the Basic.cfg I went to this line then changed it, I put semi-colons to revert back if needed: [M01] DaysSpent=2 NbGuns=2 Idx0=0 Dummy0=NULL ;;105mm_UDeck_Gun_High Idx1=1 Dummy1=NULL ;;88mm_UDeck_Gun_High Was the rear gun also removed for added speed? __________________ Silent and Violent

09-06-05, 09:14 AM	#12
Shadow9216 Frogman Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 296 Downloads: 91 Uploads: 0	Another thing to consider- removing the deck gun removes extra noise caused by water flowing over and around the gun...theoretically this should reduce the accoustic signature of your boat, but I'd have no idea by how much.

09-06-05, 11:08 AM	#13
Col7777 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 944 Downloads: 260 Uploads: 0	Here is one with both the guns removed: __________________ Silent and Violent

09-06-05, 01:01 PM	#14
FAdmiral Pacific Aces Dev Team Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 1,079 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	Col. if you remove the gun, up the submerged speed to compensate for the decreased drag, maybe up the surface speed slightly to compensate for the decreased weight, and then use your extra torps feature to adjust for the gun ammo that is no longer needed, it would make for a very good type 7 boat.... JIM PS. Not sure about the flak gun, it may still be needed sometimes. __________________ If you\'re not taking losses, you\'re not doing enough. RAdm. Kelly Turner, USN ********************************** www.fairtax.org

09-06-05, 01:08 PM	#15
Col7777 Grey Wolf Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Manchester UK Posts: 944 Downloads: 260 Uploads: 0	Hi Jim, I already altered the sub's speed, but only slightly to compensate for the loss of drag, I mentioned it a few posts up but you may have missed it. I'm not sure how accurate it is so if anyone else can enlighten me/us then please do, here is what I did: [Unit] ClassName=SSTypeIXB HumanPlayable=YES Interior=data/Interior/NSS_Uboat9/NSS_Uboat9 UnitType=200 MaxSpeed=19.2 ;18.2 MaxSpeedSubmerged=8.3 ;7.3 Length=76.9 Width=6 RenownAwarded=140 [Salvo] 1=1,3,2,4 2=1,2,4 3=1,3,4 4=1,4 5=2,3 6=1,3 7=2,4 8=5,6 [Properties] PeriscopeDepth=12;meters SnorkelDepth=10;meters CrashDepth=70;meters MaxDepth=300;meters SurfaceDepth=5.8;meters TorpLaunchMaxDepth=20;meters StormConditions=99,1;max wind speed [m/s], max rain intensity [0,1] [EngineProperties] AllStop=0.00 AheadSlow=0.50 ;0.40 AheadOneThird=0.67 ;0.57 AheadStandard=0.90 ;0.80 AheadFull=1.00 ;0.94 AheadFlank=1.05 ;1.00 BackSlow=-0.27 ;-0.26 BackStandard=-0.50 ;-0.40 BackFull=-0.63 ;-0.53 BackEmergency=-0.76 ;-0.66 I left the old speeds safely behind the semi-colons. __________________ Silent and Violent