Akula 65 Torpedo

[Bellman]

LuftWolf and Amizaurs fine new mod for DW has forced me tp re-appraise my use of this weapon as it is now changed to a wake-homer.

In sub v sub, MP paricularly, which weapon type is your most successful killer ?

[Bellman]

Addressing this question to Ak divers only.

So we dont want 'hundreds' of 48s going down as 'Others', right.

Those SW divers are so pushy.

They get everywhere.

[TLAM Strike]

I'm a subroc man myself.

[Bellman]

The SS-N-27 ASWs are awesome with the higher torp speed in DW.

Its just the fisherman in me likes to hang out a quiet lure with the 65. Was hit a lot MPing 1.8 SW
by this tactic but I recognise the game balance has changed.
Still when the SW spots my AK missile transient now more easily and at greater range (LuftAm)
I would have liked to send a 65 at the same time, as before.

Just an insurance policy - now its got to be a 53 in close, with another giveaway TIW, or the shotgun.

[TLAM Strike]

The 27 is fantastic for a close in fight (Yea I consider 20 miles "close in" ) but you haven’t lived till you've nailed someone with a SS-N-16 at its max range. CZ are cool.

[Bellman]

Yea I consider 20 miles "close in"

:rotfl:

[Kapitan]

65cm here hate ASW missiles i rearly load them out also have no real use for missiles at all under ice so normaly the 65 and 53 take the place of the ASM SS-N-27

[Bellman]

So far looks as if the 65s pretty important to many divers.

I guess most of these pollers use the conventional 65 in its 'vanilla'
SS DW role with wire guiding and not as a wakehomer ?

[Amizaur]

You don't bother with fact that there is no such thing as 65cm anti-sub torpedo in reality ? :-) Real 65-76 is dedicated anti-ship weapon. If we have non-existing 65cm anti-sub torpedo in the game and that's ok for most people (?) then maybe let's make even better 100kts 50nm active/passive/wire-guided/wake-homing/IR stealth torpedo for Akulas, for sure they would make most of their kills with it ;-))))
I think real challenge is to achieve success with realistic weapons, in other case it becomes rather sci-fi (like X-Wing) or alternate-history game, not simulator .
And the Russian ASW missiles are very good, so I think that even without universal 65cm torpedo they have advantage in weapons - longer range and short reaction time with missiles, quite good UGST torpedos at closer ranges, and those awesome 65cm wake-homers against surface ships.
Next thing I'll make for Luftwolf's mod will be a long-range mode for 65cm torpedo, it can go to 54nm (!!!) at still not-bad speed of 40kts. It would be even better anti-ship weapon then, think what could you do with 54nm 40kts wake-soming torpedo :-) Of course "short-range" 27nm/50kts mode will be still available.

[Bellman]

The beefed-up wakehomer sounds awesome.
I think the mod is great with this sole reservation.

I always admire the quest for realism and would be the last to agree to ''100 kts 50 nm''

Many MP players will, I think, bemoan the loss of the vanilla (as supplied) 65. SP divers will welcome it, possibly.

Wouild it be impossible to have the option to switch , but within your excellent mod ?
Even if this meant a pre -game selection (as SCU) ? :hmm:

[Piervit]

In my opinion ASROC are too performant.

-No "torpedo in the water" at the lauch but when it hit the water.
-A too good sonar. It can detect a target too easily. In SC, an ASROC need to be at 1nm of a target for detect it. It oblige to have a very good TMA (manual TMA often).
-important speed (65 knots, for SS-N-27 ASW). The target has no many time for avoid.

I am Akula diver, and i prefer use 65cm because it is too easy to score a kill with ASROC.

[Bellman]

The SS-N-27s are now very powerfull and we must hope that the gentlemen of SC prevail in MP.
Admirable restraint was shown by many Ak divers who would not deign to send more than 2 or 3 missiles
per launch sequence. Some Fleets set similar rules in stone.

As a new convert to the Ak I welcome the LuftAm mods introduction of stronger launch transients which aims
at better game balance. But the 65 ASW was and should be the means to underpin the Ak divers
self-restraint in achieving this balance.

The SWs more realistic but slower turn-rate in DW has to be a vital factor when triangulated by MK40s.
You can run faster and burn torps with your cms (now) but if you are accurately surrounded you will die.

Is this the slippery slide we go down ? Quick games with overkill missile launches ? :hmm:

[LuftWolf]

In Combat Mission quick battles we have similar discussions about balanced time periods for "pick your own force battles" (eg. 1941 Eastern Front where the Russians have unstoppably heavy armor compared to the available Pak AT guns and German tanks). In the end, the only way for the game itself to retain realism (accurate TO&E's for time periods) is to have standing, generally accepted gentlemen's rules about not picking them with the purpose of creating balanced fights.

With regards to SUBROCS, I suppose in RL the reason a sub diver might not load all fourteen tubes with subrocs and and just keep launching them is because he is never quite sure of the entirity of the threat environment, and that tactic would leave him quite vulnerable to threats other than the primary ASW target.

When I dive in these contexts, I like to keep full situational awareness and not give in to "I know this is the only threat" kind of thinking that leads to poor overall tactics and etiquette.

I suppose the other way around this is for MP mission designers to severly punish subrocs swarms, somehow, but I'm not entirely sure about how to do that...

[Bellman]

On a practical level as an extension of the matters considered here Molon Labe has written an excellent
article in Tips and Tweaks about evening things out :-

http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/sh...?p=182#post182

For those who have'nt seen it - its well worth a look.

[Kapitan]

its always worth knowing what your enamy has got