How to manage in dense contact situations?

[MarkShot]

I have made a lot of progress with basic sub skills in the last few weeks: sonar, TMA, attacks, and evasions; but I still have trouble in dense contact environments. My problems:

(1) There are so many more contacts than trackers.

(2) Many of the contacts only have one or two NB lines so they could be harmless or dangerous.

(3) Changing course to get another leg on a TMA track disorients the whole picture ITA waterfall picture so that its hard to remember which tracks were previously checked.

(4) Lots of overlapping LOBs such that NB signatures are impossible to get.

...

Does anyone have any particular suggestions for managing under such circumstances?

Thanks.

[TLAM Strike]

ESM and the scope are very helpful. Once you've got the course and speed of a confirmed Neutral/Friendly stop tracking it.

Speed vs. TPK is a good way to determine what are potential enemies and neutrals. Remember knowing TPK will give you speed but knowing speed can give you TPK which can help in classifying contact.

[Kapitan]

also radar i use that to make sure where the ships are just as a fail safe ems and periscope are good too

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Kapitain

also radar i use that to make sure where the ships are just as a fail safe ems and periscope are good too

In MP against P-3s using Radar will get you killed. I've even been killed in SP with that damn Maverick super missile.

My philosophy is to never emit anything in a combat situation unless its for a final solution seconds before launch.

[Kapitan]

i dont realy do hard on war fare and when i use radar its for monitering movments of shipping such as loads of merchant vessels and i use it when its not possible to keep track by sonar (english channel good idea of what i mean)

radar i use to find merchant vessels and many of them against warships not so much im either too busy doing something else

all of the above is when im in blue water which is rarely might i add

under ice theres no call for radar of esm or any mast

[Kapitan]

oh yeah forgot periscope does come in handy some times

[Bellman]

Again I think Mark you refer to SCX in this DW area. With respect for both the above contributors -
this is advice from mainly SP players. OK for English Channel type situations.

I think MP is a totaly different ball game. Indeed some MP SC sub v sub players took a quick peek up aloft
at the start of the game to sort the wheat from the chaff. You soon learnt who they were - great mirth
when they called in '' Damn a heli has got me '' ...

It was possible to get away with it regularly under SC 1.8/SCX but in DW IMO it is a highly risky proceedure.
(And about as realistic as surfacing to use the SAM. ...)
Some sneaky designers will set air or surface traps just for this eventuality.

To maintain 'true' stealth I see no alternative to some hard work.
Its too easy to fall into the trap of not 'seeing the wood for the trees ' Move asap through the 'known' drag
your trackers off them and concentrate on the unknown. Watch out for relevant surface/s as under DW scenarios
there can be strong penalties rightly for collateral damage.
Fleets now impose discipline in this area - a big improvement.

Keep tacking judicialy - for TMA and as in WW2 fighters Straight = Dead.
In MP someone out there has you in their sights - make it difficult !

If you have DW Mark (?) then the sub Asw, ASuW Quick Missions are excellent for practising sonar classification/TMA
- at hardest level you usualy have 3 subs and 5 or 6 merchants lcose in, but the AI subs are pretty harmless.

[MaHuJa]

Originally Posted by MarkShot

I have made a lot of progress with basic sub skills in the last few weeks: sonar, TMA, attacks, and evasions; but I still have trouble in dense contact environments. My problems:

(1) There are so many more contacts than trackers.

1.1: Cycle them. Assign a tracker to every target, even untracking others, so that you get a line on each. Repeat at least every 3 minutes.
1.2: Use all arrays. Don't assign to towed array that which your spherical can see, (esp when you have the WAA range, in the seawolf) and use the hull array as well. (though its not that useful if you maneuver - and don't maneuver "correctly.)
1.3: Use non-sonar sensors. ESM gives you the quick classification, and periscope can give you a lot on close targets.
1.4: Prioritize. Keep trackers on important contacts, such as enemy platforms, neutral platforms near them, any collision-dangerous platforms. Leave the rest of the trackers to go around the rest. (As said, you can deassign a tracker by dragging its letter)

(2) Many of the contacts only have one or two NB lines so they could be harmless or dangerous.

2.1: Don't rely exclusively on the NB lines to identify a target. DEMON, ESM, radio messages/orders, behaviour, etc.
2.2: Check the frequency table. Having it printed is a good idea.

(3) Changing course to get another leg on a TMA track disorients the whole picture ITA waterfall picture so that its hard to remember which tracks were previously checked.

3.1 If you've checked them all (1.1), there's no problem at all. Check them all again to get another line on them.
3.2 Assuming you were talking about the towed array, see which lines existed before and throughout the turn and mark those exclusively.

(4) Lots of overlapping LOBs such that NB signatures are impossible to get.

4.1 Determine which lines belong together, look up in the frequency table, which you should have printed. (It was included in the 1.01 patch)

[MarkShot]

Well, I have taken these suggestions and even created a contact spreadsheet so that I could be more methodical about contact management. (Normally, I just let the NAV map guide me.)

However, I am 30 minutes into an SCX scenario with about 10 contacts. At least 50% of the contacts have yet to be positively IDed ... otherwise there are surface hostiles, ASW helos, and an enemy sub or two.

It sure is overwhelming ... I need to take out the enemy subs and transit to my intercept location to take out two enemy cargo ships and the clock is ticking. Sometimes subsims are easier than real life, since their abstractions reduce complexity. However, at other times, I think they can be harder, since in real life you have teams of people working on these problems in parallel. Here you have Mr. BB, Mr. NB, Mr. Demon, Mr. Classifier, Mr. Plotter, Mr. Navigator, Mr. TMA, Mr. Commander and it is all me ... argh!!! I may have to admit that this current scenario is beyond my present skill level.

One thing SC does very well is FOW (fog of war). In many ground combat games, FOW is something that is retrofitted to the game space in an abstract fashion. SC's FOW pretty much is incorporated from the ground up. It's like trying to coordinate a night fire fight without night vision with occassional sounds and glimpses of movements while civilians are strolling through the woods too.

Now, you know why in WWII, subs were simply given a patrol area which they owned and were weapons free on any contacts in the area. Much easier.

Also, from my SC play, I have concluded that civilian and merchant ships have no business being in the combat area. I certainly don't plan to be on any cruise ships with Akula's and LA class boats exchanging war shots at each other under the waves!

[Kapitan]

convoys of merchant ships have a good reason to be in the combat area

atlantic conveyor QE2 canberra all were merchant ships in a war zone during the falklands war they have a purpose

every british merchant ship can be recresistioned in time of war

[OneShot]

Maybe this helps a bit : http://www.orionwarrior.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75

[MarkShot]

Thanks. I'll review the thread later.

This was my first visit to your site. It looks interesting.

Although much of the information I can across seem to have been incorporated into Notfallmappe v6.

[Bellman]

Thanks to OneShot for the reference.

Although the kit is aimed at 'starters' I find the Progress Chart still helps me through
in dense contact environments using manual sonar.

In SC/SCX it is very easy, particularly in MP, to lose the plot - much disappears when you flank away from trouble.
The diver who maintains/recovers situational awareness is in the stronger offensive position.

The Chart helps you sort the wheat from the chaff. You may find ( I do ) that the pin board used judiciously
helps you to re-orientate quickly. You can mark up Nav but given existing tools this is slow and cumbersome.

With the Pin Board, allowing for drift you can quickly pick up the threads on the RELEVANT. Caps - This is the major
challenging task in the game its very difficult and you rightly fingure it Mark.

PS. As I have shed blood with those damned pins I am moving into the 21st century now by using magnetic markers.

[OneShot]

@MarkShot : Yep, lots of info can be found in the "Notfallmappe", thats because some originally came from it and others was incorporated into it lately (Landlubber is a Mod on the Vault). Nevertheless new stuff will be most likely at first at the Vault/Radio Room before its in the "Notfallmappe".

[MarkShot]

Actually, I did have some thoughts on the dense contact situation that are more along the lines of scenario design, the editor, and realism, than game play techniques:

http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/b...354;p=3#000067