SSN KURSK was down by US SSN Memphis !!!

[MaxRiga]

Hi all
i got this file in word.doc by email from friend of mine so, have no idea where he took it from ( this is forum style review ).
but this is shocking news about ssn KURSK sub tragegy. shortly, this says about how us sub hits kursk but another us sub ( real american stupidity ) had launched torpedo cause thought that kursk attacks it.
most interesting is that this movie on History Chennel in Canada now.
Is there any good russian-english translater to translate it on english. i think this is gonna be interesting for all.


Сейча� по History Channel в Канаде идет �ериал про подлодки. Две �ерии
из �того �ериала по�в�щено Кур�ку. Одна из них уже прошла,
�егодн�-втора�.
Вот опи�ание первой �ерии передранное из одного топика:

Поначалу показывали то, что мы уже видели и знали. Как и когда �то
�лучило�ь, и как наши военные начальники на �то реагировали. Обычные
кадры. Женщины в и�терике и в�е такое. Обвинени� Путину, что о�тавал��
на отдыхе на Черном море. Показали Илью Клебанова, е�ли помните, он был
тогда вице-премьер мини�тром. Показали как Клебанов �то�л молча перед
впавшими в и�терику женщинами не зна� что ответить. Мы уже немного
ра��лабили�ь, ну, мол, будет �ейча� … пройдут�� от души по нашим.

И тут внезапный поворот. Вы, наверное, помните, что была така� вер�и� в
некоторых газетах, что, мол, была р�дом ино�транна� подводна� лодка, и
было вроде как �толкновение, а потом детонировали торпеды на «Кур�ке». У
на� �то в�е и о�тало�ь нелепым вымы�лом, и в итоге, по�ле двухлетнего
�лед�тви�, в 2002 году была озвучена официальна� вер�и�, �огла�но
которой �амопроизвольно взорвала�ь торпеда в но�овом от�еке, затем по
цепной реакции взорвал�� ве�ь боезапа�, что и повлекло гибель подлодки и
�кипажа.

Теперь о том, что нам тут показали в �том фильме.

Показали, что было две американ�кие подводные лодки в районе маневров.
Они были на �пецзадании, �лед� за маневрами. Одна подлодка «Мемфи�» шла
под прикрытием другой лодки «Толедо» в тени. Вроде, как только одна на
�кранах в�ех радаров и �онаров. Потом «Мемфи�» вынырнула из под �воей
ведущей лодки, чтобы получше и��ледовать запу�к балли�тиче�кой ракеты �
«Кур�ка» не ра��читав кур� и ра��то�ние. �мериканцы оказали�ь на
в�тречном кур�е и �толкнули�ь в лобовом направлении � нашими. Они прошли
в�ем телом по наиболее у�звимому второму от�еку «Кур�ка». �о �амое
ужа�ное �лучило�ь потом. �а второй американ�кой лодке «Толедо», наблюда�
в�ю картину, капитан решил, что ру��кие каким то образом атаковали
«Мемфи�» и не долго дума�, выпу�тил торпеду по «Кур�ку». Торпеда попала
пр�мо в о�лабленную ча�ть на �тыке второго и третьего от�еков и
разорвала�ь внутри. В фильме показали компьютерную вариацию � уча�тием
в�ех трех лодок о том как в�е произошло. �ашими �амолетами, по �вежим
�ледам, были зафик�ированы ма�л�ные п�тна на воде по кур�у уход�щей �
ме�та прои�ше�тви� чужой подлодки.

В некоторых газетах пи�али, что была ино�транна� подлодка, вроде как
англий�ка�, и мы в�е про �то читали

Теперь о том, что мы точно не знали. Оказывает��, наши вели �ти две
американ�кие подлодки до в�ех �обытий и точно знали, что �то были
американцы на наблюдении. По�ле �толкновени� и атаки на «Кур�к» мини�тр
обороны Сергеев подн�л две противолодочные ��кадрильи в воздух.
�емедленно доложили на юг Путину. И в тот же момент на �в�зь � Путиным
вышли американцы. По�ле �в�зи � американцами Путин отозвал �амолеты и, в
конце концов, Путин (или его команда) прин�л решение о�тавать�� на юге,
чтобы не провоцировать нагнетание напр�женно�ти. В�е, оказывает��, было
на крае пропа�ти.
Срочно прибыл в Мо�кву директор ЦРУ дл� кон�ультаций. В�е �то врем�
Путин по�то�нно был на �в�зи � Биллом Клинтоном.

В итоге к лодке никого не подпу�кали, хот� ве�ь мир предлагал
квалифицированную помощь. В�е мы ведь думали, что можно �па�ти
кого-нибудь. Через не�колько дней наши �огла�или�ь пу�тить датчан, но �о
�трожайшим приказом не подплывать к но�у лодки. Датчане �умели открыть
люк в во�ьмом от�еке, нашли не�колько по�мертных запи�ей, и подтвердили,
что внутри лодки никто не выжил. По�ле �того шла работа уже наших
водолазов. Они уже не заботили�ь о �амой лодке, ее реакторе и погибших
мор�ках. Оказывает�� �о дна около «Кур�ка», в �рочном пор�дке убирали�ь
ку�ки и обломки американ�кого «Мемфи�а».

Те ро��ий�кие газеты, которые в�е же умудрили�ь опубликовать �путниковые
�нимки «подозрительной ино�транной» подлодки на ремонте в норвеж�ком
порту были тут же прижаты к ногтю ФСБ. Эта подлодка дей�твительно была
американ�кой «Мемфи�» и добирала�ь она до �орвегии 7 дней вме�то 2
обычных. Друга� американ�ка� лодка «Толедо» зигзагами, не�тандартным
кур�ом, ушла в СШ�. Двое пред�тавителей ро��ий�кого военного и
политиче�кого руковод�тва Игорь Сергеев и Иль� Клебанов, которые не шли
на поводу и от�таивали американ�кий �лед как публичную вер�ию были в
итоге отправлены в от�тавку.

�екоторое врем� �пу�т� (около двух недель по�ле прои�ше�тви�) ве�ь
предыдущий ро��ий�кий долг СШ� был аннулирован, и �мерика предо�тавила
Ро��ии новый кредит на 10 миллиардов долларов. Кажда� �емь�, погибших на
«Кур�ке» мор�ков, получила немы�лимую компен�ацию в 25 000 долларов.

Путину, тем ни менее, нужно было пон�ть лодку дл� подн�ти� политиче�кого
имиджа.
�а подъем «Кур�ка» год �пу�т�, был подпи�ан контракт � голланд�кой
компанией, един�твенной, котора� �огла�ила�ь подн�ть только �реднюю и
хво�товую ча�ть. В�е о�тальные компании за много меньшие деньги
�оглашали�ь подн�ть ве�ь корпу� целиком. Голландцы отпилили два но�овых
от�ека и вывезли на �ушу в�е о�тальное. Вот тут нам и показали кадры
лодки крупным планом так �казать по прибытии. Пр�мо у ме�та отпила зи�ла
огромна� кругла� дыра и кра� у �той дыры были вм�ты внутрь. У на� �того
точно не показывали, потому что немедленно �та ча�ть фюзел�жа была
объ�влена за�екреченной и впо�лед�твии была ликвидирована, как впрочем
в�е кинопленки. В фильме были приведены показани� �к�пертов, которые
подтвердили, что только американ�ка� торпеда нового образца ( не помню
ее точное название), может о�тавл�ть такие �леды, прожига� наружный �лой
и врыва��ь внутри.

Удивительный фильм. О�обенно зде�ь в Канаде. Одно, не�омненно, иде�

[Jamie]

Originally Posted by MaxRiga

... but this is shocking news about ssn KURSK sub tragegy. shortly, this says about how us sub hits kursk but another us sub ( real american stupidity ) had launched torpedo cause thought that kursk attacks it...

Hmmm, interesting political commentary to slip in there... (not so subtle either, I might add).

In the future, it might be a better idea to at least APPEAR objective even though you are not (at least that makes us stupid American have to WORK for it a little bit)...

[Schemer]

I saw the program on History Channel (Canada) and found it quite interesting. No idea if the story holds water.
I was wondering what others who saw it thought. Has there been much discussion on these forums about possible scenarios?

[timmyg00]

here we go again

TG

[Schemer]

I guess that means it has been discussed already??
And not in an intelligent, unbiased manner?

[Ula Jolly]

Upon reading this, a name appears in my head. Scorpion?

[PeriscopeDepth]

Originally Posted by MaxRiga

i think this is gonna be interesting for all.

No, it won't. It's been beaten to death on every sim forum I'm a member of. Been beaten to death for about what, four years now? Strangely enough it's always someone from the fUSSR that brings it up.

Shocking, positvely shocking.

[JoeL_221]

With compilments to Kapitian, here is a link to his original post about this:
http://www.subsim.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=35711

[JoeL_221]

And just for fun, here is a link to a site that might shed some more light on the French documentary:
http://www.jp-petit.com/Koursk/Koursk2.htm

Imagine, torpedos that travel 6000 knots, wow!

[TLAM Strike]

Originally Posted by Ula Jolly

Upon reading this, a name appears in my head. Scorpion?

Naw there was no foul play involved in the Scorpion but we all know Squalus went down when Soviet frogmen jammed her hatch open.

[awood6535]

This is the translated version with nothing left out.


Now on History Channel in Canada goes series about the submarines. Two series from this series it is devoted to Kursk. One of them already passed, the today- second. Here is the description of the first series that fought of one topika: At first showed that the fact that we already saw and they knew. As when this happened, and as our military chiefs to this they reacted. Usual personnel. Women in hysterics and entire such. Charges to Putin, that it remained on leisure in the Black sea. They showed Ilya klebanova, if you remember, it was then vice- premier minister. They showed as Klebanov it stood silently before the women fallen into hysterics without knowing that to answer. We already a little were weakened, well, it is said, it will be now... they will pass from the soul on our. And here sudden turning. You, probably remember that there was this version in some newspapers, that, it is said, was a number the foreign submarine, and it was like as collision, and then detonated torpedoes in "Kursk". this all remained absurd invention, and as a result, after two-year-old consequence, in 2002 was supply with sounied the official version, according to which the torpedo in the forward hold spontaneously exploded, then according to the chain reaction exploded entire ammunition, that also entailed the loss of submarine and crew. Now about the fact that they here showed us in this film. They showed that there were two American submarines in the region of maneuvers. They were on the special-task, following the maneuvers. One submarine "Memphis" went under the cover of another boat "Toledo" in the shadow. Like, as soon as one on the screens of all radars and sonars. Then "Memphis" it emerged from under its leading boat in order to rather better investigate the starting of ballistic missile from "Kursk" without having calculated course and distance. Americans proved to be in the head-on course and they encountered in the frontal direction with our. They passed by entire body of the most vulnerable second section of "Kursk". But the most terrible happened then. On the second American boat "Toledo", observing entire picture, captain solved, that the Russians by what that means attacked "Memphis" and for long without thinking, it let out torpedo on "Kursk". Torpedo fell directly into the weakened part at the joint of the second and third sections and was torn inside. In the film they showed computer variation with the participation of all three boats about that as all it occurred. Our aircraft, on the fresh tracks, fixed grease spots on the water on the course of outgoing from the place of incident strange submarine. In some newspapers wrote that there was the foreign submarine, like as English, and we all about this they read Now about the fact that we accurately did not know. It occurs, our conducted these two American submarines before all events and they accurately knew that these were Americans in the observation. After collision and attack on "Kursk" the Minister of Defense of the Sergeys raised two antisubmarine squadrons into air. They immediately reported to the south to Putin. And at the same moment to the connection with The the putinym left Americans. After connection with the Americans Putin recalled aircraft and, after all, Putin (or its command) made the decision to remain in the south in order not to provoke the forcing of tension. Everything, occurs, it was on the edge of precipice. The director OF TSRU for the consultations urgently arrived to Moscow. All this time Putin was constantly on the connection with Billom Clinton. As a result to the boat no one they allowed to approach, although entire peace proposed expert assistance. We all indeed thought that it is possible to save someone. Through several days our agreed to release Danes, but with the strictest order not to swim up to the nose of boat. Danes knew how to open hatchway in the eighth section, they found several posthumous records, and they confirmed that no one survived inside the boat. The work of already our divers occurred after this. They no longer worried about boat itself, its reactor and killed seamen. It occurs from the bottom near "Kursk", quickly were removed the pieces and the fragments of American "Memphis". Those Russian newspapers, which nevertheless managed to publish the satellite photographs of the "suspicious foreign" of submarine on the repair in the Norwegian port were here forced against nail FSB. This submarine was actually American "Memphis" and it reached Norway 7 days instead of 2 usual. Another American boat "Toledo" by zigzags, by nonstandard course, is shrewd in THE USA. Two representatives of the Russian military and political management Igor Sergey and Ilya klebanov, which do not dispatch on to occasion and they defended American track as public version they were as a result sent for the resignation. For a while (about two weeks after incident) entire previous Russian debt TO THE USA it was annulled, and America granted new credit to 10 billion dollars to Russia. Each family, of the killed in "Kursk" seamen, obtained unthinkable compensation into 25 000 dollars. To Putin, that not it is less, it was necessary to understand boat for raising the political image. To the lift of "Kursk" yr later, was signed the contract with the Dutch company, only, which agreed to raise only average and tail section. All the remaining companies for the much smaller money agreed to raise entire housing wholly. Dutchmen sawed off two forward holds and exported everything else to the land. Here here us showed personnel of boat by closeup so to say on the arrival. Directly in place took a sip it gaped the enormous round hole and of edge in this hole they were squeezed inward. this they did not accurately show, because immediately this part of the fuselage was declared classified and it was subsequently liquidated as however all motion picture films. In the film were given the statements of the experts, who confirmed that only American torpedo of the new model (I do not remember its precise name), it can leave such tracks, burning outer layer and being dug in inside. Surprising film. Especially here in Canada. One, undoubtedly, the idea

[Fish]

A few weeks ago I had a conversation with Mr, van Seumeren a former director of Mammoet Transport BV company, his nephew is Frans van Seumeren who was in charge, and who made the job doable.

This conversation was after he showed some DVD's with video's made during the preparation and the actual lifting.
Impressive is just a word, some times I had goose pimples.
Anyway, afterwards I asked him if he could tell the explosion was from inside or from outside.
He smiled and told me half the world asked him that question.
The explosion, he sayd, was from inside.
He also told that , in his opinion, the Kursk was raised to use what could ,to finish a half finished other submarine, waiting in a shipyard nearby.

[XabbaRus]

Mammomet released a great DVD about Kursk with a book published near where I live.

VEry interesting/

[Ula Jolly]

By "Scorpion" I was rather pointing to the whole hysteria of theories than the exact nature of the accident.
I recall hearing something about torpedoes falling to the ground during reloading on a naval base, and several other theories. I'll settle with knowing that I don't know what I don't know. What I hope, is that those left behind have their questions answered, correctly.

[Sea Demon]

Doesn't this belong in General Discussion Forum???

At any rate, this topic is a................

Sea Demon