A new slant on RIMPAC Naval politics/The Fight To Control The South China Sea

[Aktungbby]

A new twist (ominous) on current Pacific Naval politics? http://live.wsj.com/video/wary-moves-as-china-joins-us-led-naval-drills/D310446D-029B-48F4-B8EC-24021995AAC8.html#!D310446D-029B-48F4-B8EC-24021995AAC8 If yer gonna fight 'em; first ya gotta practice & additionally: http://www.marsecreview.com/2014/07/in-pacific-drills-navies-adjust-to-new-arrival/ of course it would be interesting to see Chinese vessels under nominal Japanese command in the drill. Sun-Tsu asea is getting veeeerrrry diplomatic No shootin' my 'Killer tomato' IMHO

[Aktungbby]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/china-pushes-limits-to-closer-ties-with-u-s-military-1405964884?cb=logged0.010558662141789965 "China's navy chief, Adm. Wu Shengli, suggested the U.S. should bring the USS George Washington, an aircraft carrier based in Japan, to a mainland Chinese port and allow the crew of the Liaoning to take a tour, according to Adm. Greenert." U.S. Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Jonathan W. Greenert, right, speaks with China's Navy Commander-in-Chief Adm. Wu Shengli during a welcoming ceremony in Beijing July 15. If they wish to copy us so badly, perhaps they should rename the ship the Shengli-La!

[vanjast]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

If they wish to copy us so badly, perhaps they should rename the ship the Shengli-La!

Looking at the Millenia of history .. I'd say USA is copying China

[Oberon]

Oh snap!

[Aktungbby]

Originally Posted by vanjast

Looking at the Millenia of history .. I'd say USA is copying China

NOT! "The naming of the ship was a radical departure from the general practice of the time, which was to name aircraft carriers after battles or previous US Navy ships. After the war altering Doolittle Raid, launched from the USS Hornet, President FDR answered a reporter's question by saying that the raid had been launched from "Shangri-La", the fictional faraway land of the novel Lost Horizon. CV/CVA/CVS 38 USS Shangri-La; on last deployment 1970. Two battle stars in WWII as flagship Carrier Task Force Two-Vice ADM John S. McCain Sr. commanding, and three Battle stars for Viet Nam. Some literary fantasy meets some badass reality I'd say! AND, The 'proof may be in the pudding' as the Brits have it: the Chinese are coming to U.S. for advice!?... ie now that we got one of these...How & what do we do with it?

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by vanjast

Looking at the Millenia of history .. I'd say USA is copying China

Originally Posted by Oberon

Oh snap!

LOL...may well do when they have enough muscle to throw some of it about

[Aktungbby]

http://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33153.pdf Of particular interest is the Chinese development and testing in the Gobi desert ot the (Dong-Feng/ East Wind) DF21 D ASBM missile designed to takeout ships at sea within a considerable range of 2000 miles. Clearly, as with the Kaiser's Imperial fleet development prior to WWI, a specific 'potential' enemy, the U.S. and its allies is the intended target.
"An apparent test of the missile was made against a carrier target in the Gobi desert in January" 2013.http://www.military.com/video/forces/military-foreign-forces/china-sinks-us-carrier-df-21d-missile-test/3161588772001/
"A Russian Military Analysis report of the DF-21D has concluded that the only way to successfully counter it would be through electronic counter measures. Conventional interceptions of high-speed objectives have worked in the past, with the Russian report citing the 2008 interception of a malfunctioning satellite by a U.S. cruiser, but in that situation the warship had extensive knowledge of its location and trajectory. Against an attack from the Mach 10 DF-21D without knowing the missile's launch point, the U.S. Navy's only way to evade it would be through electronic countermeasures.
The emergence of the DF-21D has some analysts claiming that the "carrier killer" missiles have rendered the American use of aircraft carriers obsolete, as they are too vulnerable in the face of the new weapon and not worth the expense. Military leaders in the U.S. Navy and Air Force, however, do not see it as a "game changer" to completely count carriers out. Firstly, there are questions on whether it has even entered operational service. Chinese publications said it was deployed in 2010 and U.S. officials reported it reached IOC that same year. Even so, being deployed does not mean it is combat-ready, and the Xinhua News Agency reported that the DF-21D was “still in the research stage” and not yet operational as of July 2011. Secondly, the missile may not be able to single-handedly destroy its target. The warhead is believed to be enough to inflict a "mission kill" to make a carrier unable to conduct flight operations, while other missiles would follow to actually destroy the ship. Thirdly, there is the problem of finding its target. The DF-21D has a range estimated between 1,035 to 1,726 miles-Since upgraded-so a carrier battle group would need to be located through other means before launching. Over the horizon radars could detect ships, but their exact locations could be off by miles. Chinese recon satellites would be able to look for and locate a battle group. Recon aircraft and submarines could also look for them, but they are vulnerable to the carrier's defenses. Finally, the missile may have a hard time hitting its target. To hit ships moving at 34 mph (30 kn), the DF-21D has radar and optical sensors for tracking. These are supposed to make it accurate, but the missile has not yet been tested against a moving target, let alone ones at sea against clutter and countermeasures. The "kill chain" of the missile requires processing and constantly updating data of a carrier's location, preparing the launch, programming information, and then firing it. How often this is trained is not known, and the U.S. military's Air-Sea Battle concept involves disrupting an enemy's kill chain. Some U.S. analysts believe that the DF-21D doesn't fly any faster than Mach 5." In an offset war such as the two submarine based world wars waged against superior naval forces (England), the cheap solution to an expensive problem is always paramount-as with the Stinger against the Hind helicopter etc. The Chinese, lacking the number of marine 'platforms' of their 'potential' RIMPAC opponent(s), are embracing the cheap $olution...time to quit kidding ourselves(and helping!); the clock is ticking. from satellite image"a common line from China's national defense doctrine before the country acquired an aircraft carrier of its own — namely that carriers are an offensive weapon while anti-ship missiles are defensive. "It can be used like a stick to hit the dog intruding on our backyard, but it can never be used to attack the house where the dog comes from," You're supposed to "walk softly with a big stick"...and that ain't happenin'

[Von Tonner]

According to the below analysis the USA is still way way ahead of the current capabilities of the Chinese sub fleet even with them continuing to increase their year on year defence budget by double digits

Long may this last as it is comfort to all in the free world. I am extremely mindful of the fact that the % going towards the US Defence budget from the hardworking US citizenry is also ensuring my relative safety on the other side of the world.

In his statement, (to the to the U.S. House Seapower and Projections Forces subcommittee on the status of the Chinese navy) "Admiral Mulloy acknowledged that U.S. submarines remain superior to Chinese ones. But, his remark about China producing some "fairly amazing" submarines mischaracterizes and overplays the Chinese underwater force, particularly its nuclear submarines. Relatively speaking, and given the qualitative difference between the U.S. and Chinese nuclear submarine force in particular, if the latest Chinese submarines are "fairly amazing" then the latest U.S. Virginia class submarines could only be described as "phenomenal."

https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/ch...-still-us-wake

[Aktungbby]

AHEM: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=214616 post 11

[Von Tonner]

Originally Posted by Aktungbby

AHEM: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=214616 post 11

Dont know how I missed that Aktungbby Thanks for the heads up

[Jimbuna]

Threads merged.

[Aktungbby]

[QUOTE: me]One things for certain: it's a' comin' They're not 'rattlin' the sabre'yet! but they're sure forging it![/QUOTE] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-32331964 Nothing like a 10, 000 ft runway built on a reef in the middle of the 'Cow's Lick' of Chinese expansion. It's capable of accommodating military aircraft...and like Midway in WWII, is in reality a 'carrier you cannot sink' this one will bear monitoring. The slow trudge of Sino-dominance in the Western Pacific is well underway.

[mapuc]

I don't know the mentality of the Chinese, so I can't say if this is something to worry about or it's how the leaders speak to their military.

During an inspection of the People's Liberation Army Marine Corps in Chaozhou City, Xinhua said Xi told the soldiers to "maintain a state of high alert" and called on them to be "absolutely loyal, absolutely pure, and absolutely reliable."

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/14/a...hnk/index.html

Markus

[Jimbuna]

Sabre rattling in my estimation. The only entity those soldiers will be fighting any time soon is probably COVID.

[Onkel Neal]

http://shanghaiist.com/2015/05/21/ch..._spy_plane.php

The Chinese navy warned a U.S. surveillance aircraft to turn away eight times yesterday as it approached disputed airspace above a chain of artificial islands in the South China Sea where China is constructing military installations.
CNN was on board the P8-A Poseidon for its surveillance mission directed at observing Chinese activity in the disputed area and more broadly signaling that the U.S. does not recognize China's territorial claims in the region. This marks the first time that the Pentagon has allowed a news team to tag along on an operation in the South China Sea. They have also declassified video taken by the surveillance operation, as well as the audio of the communications with Chinese navy, in order to raise awareness about Chinese military build-up on the man-made islands that is causing the U.S. and neighboring nations to feel a bit uneasy.

And what a mission to be on! Predictably, China was not terribly welcoming to the American spy plane. As the P8 approached Fiery Cross Reef, an island made by China some 600 miles off the coast, a voice in English crackled through the radio: "This is the Chinese navy ... This is the Chinese navy ... Please go away ... to avoid misunderstanding."

All eight such warnings were rebuffed, with the American pilots responding that they were flying through international airspace.

That wasn't quite the answer the Chinese were looking for. Unable to take the hint, the frustrated Chinese radio operator finally said in exasperation: "This is the Chinese navy ... You go!"