Plane hijacking...

Skybird · 05-24-21, 05:44 AM

... and getting away with it.

https://translate.google.com/transla...ach-Minsk.html

Well...

MaDef · 05-24-21, 08:05 AM

The plane was within Belarus' airspace and falls under the authority of that nation. As far as I'm aware, every other sovereign nation on the planet reserves the same "right" to police it's own airspace. So barring an agreement or treaty to the contrary, this incident was not a hijacking.

Skybird · 05-24-21, 10:10 AM

Defending a crime by juristical hair splitting. Great.

Its the intention that defines the crime. The intent was neither just nor legal. The intention was state terrorism against the opposition.

Watch out whom you side with. Lukashenko is no legally voted-for democrat, but a brutal tyrant and criminal who played and plays foul and violates basic human rights.

And there was no bomb threat, as was claimed to the Ryanair pilot. If the Belarus cause was legal and right, why then lying to the pilot instead of just insisting on legal rights you claim they had?

Skybird · 05-24-21, 10:33 AM

I also remind of reports that secret service agents apparently were aboard the plane since it started, severla of them. The boss of Ryanair also stated that several "KGB agents"

were aboard.

Also, that today we got reports that at least one Lufthansa plane also was not allowed to take off at Minsk during and after the enforced landing of Ryanair. The plane was searched.

The claimed threat by Hamas, simply is completely unbelievable. I take it as a lie behind which the regime now tries to hide. I mean its the sam regime that claims that protest against the stealing of the elections is civil unrest and illegal.

If we are about laws and what a regime claims is "legal", lets not forget that most of what the Third Reich committed in crimes and terror acts - was in conformity with german laws. Laws can be made for and used for making crimes by the state "legal". We see that in many regimes of the past and present. Some laws form the Third Reich era and some parts of the german legal tradition root in that dark past and even are still valid until today. The German federal state of Hesse still has the death penalty.

Not even most Germans know this.

Lets not fall for these cheap tricks of the Lukashenko regime. They played foul once again, and we all know it.

Skybird · 05-24-21, 10:55 AM

It seems that Russia was involved, too. As some commentators in Germany point out, NATO officials should really be worried about what this hijacking means for the credibility of NATO's deterrance in the eyes of its foes. There were citizens from many NATO countries aboard. Do we care for protecting our citizens, or do we let them off by being too scared to play tough and protecting them?

I think diplomatic relations should be cancelled with Belarus, and the borders closed indefinetly, and all mutual landing rights and overflight agreements should be cancelled as well. An iron curtain. I m ean we also maintian no diplomatic relations with the Mafia or Camorra, and sign no treaties with them and give them no legal recognition, right? Wetsenr business peope, thinkling they miust want to do business with Belarus, shoud, be put under sanctiosnb,a nd toruists should be ifnormed they trrale their at their ver yown risk and can epxect no support whatever if they think they must do private travels by illegal means there.

Honestly said I more and mroe think we shoudk act the same way with Russia, and of cours echina. Stop dealing with them, in all regards.

The german foreign diplomatic course dominating in the EU, "Wandel durch Handel" (Change by trade) has collapsed completely in past months and years. In every single case where the Germans tried it. It failedl failed, failed every single time. Not one evil regime ever changed for the better due to German money making - and money giving - policies (or American pendant policies, or any other economic trade brings change policies by anyone). It never worked, it never worked, it never worked. It only makes the bad boys badder, more daring, and stronger. Russia. China. Iran being the best examples. Also, the Palestinain arabs, Hamas, Hezbollah.

The West has to give up a good amount of its pacifistic illusions that only illustrate one thing: Western reality denial and stupidity.

mapuc · 05-24-21, 10:57 AM

There's only one thing I'm wondering about

The response-What kind of weak response can we expect EU and/or NATO will come up with ?

Markus

MaDef · 05-24-21, 11:00 AM

I'm not siding with either side in this, as far as I can tell this is an internal matter between the Belarus government and a Belarus citizen. If and when Belarus starts diverting flights and taking foreign nationals into custody, then we can revisit the issue.

Skybird · 05-24-21, 01:28 PM

"An internal matter between the Belarus government and a Belarus citizen."

The relation is that between criminal scumbags and murderous gangsters, and their victims they think of as their property.

Skybird · 05-24-21, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

There's only one thing I'm wondering about

The response-What kind of weak response can we expect EU and/or NATO will come up with ?

Markus

Indeed. Next time the Russians - and Belarus is Russia, without Russian patronage and support Belarus and Lukashenko would be nothing - maybe decide to intercept a plane over the Baltic and in international airspace, they have air superiority over much of it both in fighters and missiles. What will the Europeans and NATO then do? The Russians can assassinate people in London and in Berlin Tiergarten in daylight and in public, and nothing serious happens. They can run a stunt like this one in Minsk, and the EU only considers symbolic acts as TV news just said over here: more listings (banning regime figures from travelling to the EU and fr4eezing their bank accounts - as if they would still hold their money within European reach. Its not just germany protecting Russia from serious, hurting consequences, France is busy doing so as well in their obsession to confront the Yanks and limit their influence in Europe that France plans to be Francophile.

Loud words simply do not scare away thnew bad guys - Europeans want to be taken as stroing buddies wiohtout being striong buddies. Thats like a weight lifter wanting to be strong without training his muscles and having an according diet.

Maulheldentum.

Catfish · 05-24-21, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaDef

The plane was within Belarus' airspace and falls under the authority of that nation. [...] .

It does not matter in which airspace a civilian aircraft is, even if it has landed on a foreign ariport, every square inch of the plane belongs to the nation this aircraft is registered in, every person aboard cannot just be removed from foreign territory, as the plane represents this very foreign territory it is registered in.

Since Putin recently has killed some critics and defectors abroad it seems certain states do not respect international law anymore and should be treated accordingly.

Skybird · 05-24-21, 01:44 PM

BTW, germany lets the Turkish secret olcie hunt Erdoghan critics in Germany, too, and doe snothign about it. Laschet-the-talking-bear even recnetly made Erdoghan's nationapistic figfth column in germany, the DITIB, the "partner" for his wanted relaunch of German-Islamic school curriculae consultations, although the office fvor the protection of the constitution BVS rates DITIB as hostile to the constitutional order.

German policy on Russia:

German policy on Turkey:

German policy on China:

German policy on Iran:

German policy on Palestinian Arabs:

Jimbuna · 05-24-21, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

There's only one thing I'm wondering about

The response-What kind of weak response can we expect EU and/or NATO will come up with ?

Markus

France says flights by Belarusian carrier Belavia could be banned from EU airspace. WOW!

Sanctions are a popular tool in diplomacy. They sound tough, often cost little and, by and large, don’t involve loss of life.

But will the measures being discussed in Brussels this evening make a difference?

Belarus is already subject to a range of UK and EU sanctions, including travel bans and asset freezes.

The obvious first option is to harden those sanctions and widen their impact. But EU politicians have already said an act of external aggression like this requires more.

So that will probably involve some kind of EU-wide ban on Belarus’s national carrier and a declaration the country’s airspace is unsafe.

The big question is whether the EU will go even further and impose sanctions on big state-owned companies and key sectors of the Belarus economy, such as oil or potash. Some countries may not want to go that far.

Some may be reluctant to see the people of Belarus suffer for the sins of their leaders. Others will fear that deepening the country’s isolation will only push it further into the warm embrace of Russia. So sanctions might sometimes sound like an easy option. But not always.

Typical response I suspect.

Catfish · 05-24-21, 01:50 PM

https://www.rt.com/russia/524614-bel...ding-reaction/

Russia Today

Jimbuna · 05-24-21, 02:13 PM

^ Yes, I think many of us could write that in advance of it being published

Russia calls Western reaction "shocking" and "hypocritical"

MaDef · 05-24-21, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

It does not matter in which airspace a civilian aircraft is, even if it has landed on a foreign ariport, every square inch of the plane belongs to the nation this aircraft is registered in, every person aboard cannot just be removed from foreign territory, as the plane represents this very foreign territory it is registered in.

Since Putin recently has killed some critics and defectors abroad it seems certain states do not respect international law anymore and should be treated accordingly.

This is not as simple as you are trying to make it out to be.

05-24-21, 05:44 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Plane hijacking... ... and getting away with it. https://translate.google.com/transla...ach-Minsk.html Well... __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-24-21, 10:10 AM	#3
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Defending a crime by juristical hair splitting. Great. Its the intention that defines the crime. The intent was neither just nor legal. The intention was state terrorism against the opposition. Watch out whom you side with. Lukashenko is no legally voted-for democrat, but a brutal tyrant and criminal who played and plays foul and violates basic human rights. And there was no bomb threat, as was claimed to the Ryanair pilot. If the Belarus cause was legal and right, why then lying to the pilot instead of just insisting on legal rights you claim they had? __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-24-21, 10:33 AM	#4
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	I also remind of reports that secret service agents apparently were aboard the plane since it started, severla of them. The boss of Ryanair also stated that several "KGB agents" were aboard. Also, that today we got reports that at least one Lufthansa plane also was not allowed to take off at Minsk during and after the enforced landing of Ryanair. The plane was searched. The claimed threat by Hamas, simply is completely unbelievable. I take it as a lie behind which the regime now tries to hide. I mean its the sam regime that claims that protest against the stealing of the elections is civil unrest and illegal. If we are about laws and what a regime claims is "legal", lets not forget that most of what the Third Reich committed in crimes and terror acts - was in conformity with german laws. Laws can be made for and used for making crimes by the state "legal". We see that in many regimes of the past and present. Some laws form the Third Reich era and some parts of the german legal tradition root in that dark past and even are still valid until today. The German federal state of Hesse still has the death penalty. Not even most Germans know this. Lets not fall for these cheap tricks of the Lukashenko regime. They played foul once again, and we all know it. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-24-21, 10:55 AM	#5
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	It seems that Russia was involved, too. As some commentators in Germany point out, NATO officials should really be worried about what this hijacking means for the credibility of NATO's deterrance in the eyes of its foes. There were citizens from many NATO countries aboard. Do we care for protecting our citizens, or do we let them off by being too scared to play tough and protecting them? I think diplomatic relations should be cancelled with Belarus, and the borders closed indefinetly, and all mutual landing rights and overflight agreements should be cancelled as well. An iron curtain. I m ean we also maintian no diplomatic relations with the Mafia or Camorra, and sign no treaties with them and give them no legal recognition, right? Wetsenr business peope, thinkling they miust want to do business with Belarus, shoud, be put under sanctiosnb,a nd toruists should be ifnormed they trrale their at their ver yown risk and can epxect no support whatever if they think they must do private travels by illegal means there. Honestly said I more and mroe think we shoudk act the same way with Russia, and of cours echina. Stop dealing with them, in all regards. The german foreign diplomatic course dominating in the EU, "Wandel durch Handel" (Change by trade) has collapsed completely in past months and years. In every single case where the Germans tried it. It failedl failed, failed every single time. Not one evil regime ever changed for the better due to German money making - and money giving - policies (or American pendant policies, or any other economic trade brings change policies by anyone). It never worked, it never worked, it never worked. It only makes the bad boys badder, more daring, and stronger. Russia. China. Iran being the best examples. Also, the Palestinain arabs, Hamas, Hezbollah. The West has to give up a good amount of its pacifistic illusions that only illustrate one thing: Western reality denial and stupidity. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 05-24-21 at 11:04 AM.

05-24-21, 10:57 AM	#6
mapuc CINC Pacific Fleet Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Denmark Posts: 20,535 Downloads: 37 Uploads: 0	There's only one thing I'm wondering about The response-What kind of weak response can we expect EU and/or NATO will come up with ? Markus __________________ My little lovely female cat

05-24-21, 08:05 AM	#2
MaDef Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,194 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	The plane was within Belarus' airspace and falls under the authority of that nation. As far as I'm aware, every other sovereign nation on the planet reserves the same "right" to police it's own airspace. So barring an agreement or treaty to the contrary, this incident was not a hijacking.

05-24-21, 11:00 AM	#7
MaDef Ace of the Deep Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,194 Downloads: 5 Uploads: 0	I'm not siding with either side in this, as far as I can tell this is an internal matter between the Belarus government and a Belarus citizen. If and when Belarus starts diverting flights and taking foreign nationals into custody, then we can revisit the issue.

05-24-21, 01:28 PM	#8
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	"An internal matter between the Belarus government and a Belarus citizen." The relation is that between criminal scumbags and murderous gangsters, and their victims they think of as their property. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-24-21, 01:44 PM	#11
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	BTW, germany lets the Turkish secret olcie hunt Erdoghan critics in Germany, too, and doe snothign about it. Laschet-the-talking-bear even recnetly made Erdoghan's nationapistic figfth column in germany, the DITIB, the "partner" for his wanted relaunch of German-Islamic school curriculae consultations, although the office fvor the protection of the constitution BVS rates DITIB as hostile to the constitutional order. German policy on Russia: German policy on Turkey: German policy on China: German policy on Iran: German policy on Palestinian Arabs: __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

05-24-21, 01:50 PM	#13
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	https://www.rt.com/russia/524614-bel...ding-reaction/ Russia Today __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.

05-24-21, 02:13 PM	#14
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,461 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	^ Yes, I think many of us could write that in advance of it being published Russia calls Western reaction "shocking" and "hypocritical" __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!