The Swarm - or not The Swarm?

Skybird · 11-12-20, 07:59 PM

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/buq...spain-portugal

Fascinating.

August · 11-12-20, 08:17 PM

Boy are those fish messing with the wrong species....

Gerald · 11-12-20, 10:33 PM

Yes, I have over the years watch them from Madeira.... actually really close to shore sometimes, also in a boat they're huge in size so to play with them is "no duck walk".

Jimbuna · 11-13-20, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skybird

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/buq...spain-portugal

Fascinating.

Yes, most fascinating

Certainly beats the dolphins I swam alongside in Mexico

Aktungbby · 11-13-20, 10:10 AM

^ U certainly wouldn't want one of them 'nibblin' yer rudder on a romantic honeymoon junket to ol' Mexíco!

but It could be worse!

Jimbuna · 11-13-20, 01:04 PM

To be totally honest I wasn't 100% comfortable even in a controlled environment but seeing a stingray come within two feet of me almost totally freaked me out.

Catfish · 11-13-20, 01:22 PM

Orcas are predators that usually ram ice sheets to roll them over and ditch seals and penguins, to then eat them. They communicate and work together, this has been observed for a long time.
Attacks on sailing boats also have been reported already in the 1960ies, it is not clear what causes them though.
It seems to be best to stop the engine, lower sails and behave as silent as possible. But the plastic yacht's hulls are usually not strong enough to withstand a dedicated attack, this is especially true for all the glued/laminated-in outboard locks, the rudder's shaft and the propshaft's stern tube.

If the earth or its ecosystem was intelligent and able to execute counteraction against anything damaging it, it probably would do something against mankind, just like an immunosystem's reaction.
Like Mars to Earth: "You have a disease called mankind, but tha'll soon get away"
But up to what happened until now, there is no conscient "answer" but often just a result of man's own action, like storms due to climate change, some flooding, land slides and the like.
A dedicated action by animals or a conscious earth ecosystem is - other than shown in this Pandora flick - not something to worry about i think

skidman · 11-13-20, 05:55 PM

Agreed, still the idea has inspired the originators of the Gaia hypothesis and recently has become popular in some more bizarre splinter groups within the anti-covid-lockdown protesters.

There are two funny aspects to this:

1.) Somehow we can not accept the indications suggesting we will lose the game of evolution to cyanobacteria or cockroaches. Evolution measures success in number of generations / endurance. Yep, we are doomed. Let's blame the planet.

2.) The Gaia hypothesis tries to somehow add a ethical perspective to the global ecosystem and even the inanimate spheres of the planet. And before we start speculating about who gives the right commands to volcanos and tectonic plates, and before we start separating living species into good and evil let's hear a voice of reason. Let's get back to Dawkins' "The selfish Gene":

"I shall argue that the fundamental unit of selection, and therefore of self-interest, is not the species, nor the group, nor even, strictly, the individual. It is the gene, the unit of heredity."
(Richard Dawkins)

August · 11-13-20, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catfish

It seems to be best to stop the engine, lower sails and behave as silent as possible. But the plastic yacht's hulls are usually not strong enough to withstand a dedicated attack, this is especially true for all the glued/laminated-in outboard locks, the rudder's shaft and the propshaft's stern tube.

Every species has a right to defend itself, including humans. If my boat with my family in it were subjected to such an attack those beasties are going to end up with a bunch of extra blow holes long before they put a hole in my hull or rip off the rudder.

Catfish · 11-14-20, 07:10 AM

I would do what promises the best outcome for my family.
They do not surface during an attack, and shooting at a 7-meter 6-ton aggressive predator (or usually 3-6 hunting together) swimming submerged at up to 30 knots speed, from a moving deck into a meter or more below water surface will not have much effect, until you bring some serious artillery.

11-12-20, 07:59 PM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,602 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The Swarm - or not The Swarm? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/extra/buq...spain-portugal Fascinating. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

11-12-20, 08:17 PM	#2
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Boy are those fish messing with the wrong species.... __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

11-12-20, 10:33 PM	#3
Gerald SUBSIM Newsman Join Date: May 2008 Location: Close to sea Posts: 24,254 Downloads: 553 Uploads: 0	Yes, I have over the years watch them from Madeira.... actually really close to shore sometimes, also in a boat they're huge in size so to play with them is "no duck walk". __________________ Nothing in life is to be feard,it is only to be understood. Marie Curie

11-13-20, 10:10 AM	#5
Aktungbby Gefallen Engel U-666 Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: On a tilted, overheated, overpopulated spinning mudball on Collision course with Andromeda Galaxy Posts: 29,984 Downloads: 24 Uploads: 0	The bigger the dolphin the greater the porpoise ! ^ U certainly wouldn't want one of them 'nibblin' yer rudder on a romantic honeymoon junket to ol' Mexíco! but It could be worse! __________________ "Only two things are infinite; The Universe and human squirrelyness?!! Last edited by Aktungbby; 11-13-20 at 10:21 AM.

11-13-20, 01:04 PM	#6
Jimbuna Chief of the Boat Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: 250 metres below the surface Posts: 190,473 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 13	To be totally honest I wasn't 100% comfortable even in a controlled environment but seeing a stingray come within two feet of me almost totally freaked me out. __________________ Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something. Oh my God, not again!!

11-13-20, 01:22 PM	#7
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	Orcas are predators that usually ram ice sheets to roll them over and ditch seals and penguins, to then eat them. They communicate and work together, this has been observed for a long time. Attacks on sailing boats also have been reported already in the 1960ies, it is not clear what causes them though. It seems to be best to stop the engine, lower sails and behave as silent as possible. But the plastic yacht's hulls are usually not strong enough to withstand a dedicated attack, this is especially true for all the glued/laminated-in outboard locks, the rudder's shaft and the propshaft's stern tube. If the earth or its ecosystem was intelligent and able to execute counteraction against anything damaging it, it probably would do something against mankind, just like an immunosystem's reaction. Like Mars to Earth: "You have a disease called mankind, but tha'll soon get away" But up to what happened until now, there is no conscient "answer" but often just a result of man's own action, like storms due to climate change, some flooding, land slides and the like. A dedicated action by animals or a conscious earth ecosystem is - other than shown in this Pandora flick - not something to worry about i think __________________ >^..^<)))>{ All generalizations are wrong. Last edited by Catfish; 11-13-20 at 02:25 PM.*

11-13-20, 05:55 PM	#8
skidman Ace of the Deep Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Near the Dutch mountains Posts: 1,147 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Agreed, still the idea has inspired the originators of the Gaia hypothesis and recently has become popular in some more bizarre splinter groups within the anti-covid-lockdown protesters. There are two funny aspects to this: 1.) Somehow we can not accept the indications suggesting we will lose the game of evolution to cyanobacteria or cockroaches. Evolution measures success in number of generations / endurance. Yep, we are doomed. Let's blame the planet. 2.) The Gaia hypothesis tries to somehow add a ethical perspective to the global ecosystem and even the inanimate spheres of the planet. And before we start speculating about who gives the right commands to volcanos and tectonic plates, and before we start separating living species into good and evil let's hear a voice of reason. Let's get back to Dawkins' "The selfish Gene": "I shall argue that the fundamental unit of selection, and therefore of self-interest, is not the species, nor the group, nor even, strictly, the individual. It is the gene, the unit of heredity." (Richard Dawkins) __________________ "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.” (Douglas Adams)

11-14-20, 07:10 AM	#10
Catfish Dipped Squirrel Operative Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: ..where the ocean meets the sky Posts: 17,765 Downloads: 38 Uploads: 0	I would do what promises the best outcome for my family. They do not surface during an attack, and shooting at a 7-meter 6-ton aggressive predator (or usually 3-6 hunting together) swimming submerged at up to 30 knots speed, from a moving deck into a meter or more below water surface will not have much effect, until you bring some serious artillery. __________________ >^..^<*)))>{ All generalizations are wrong.