USA: Target of Illegal Immigration

[Gerald]

The Christian right is allowing Trump to escape responsibility for the immoral policy of separating children from their parents. Have they no shame?

As a matter of recent policy, agents of the American government take children from their parents’ arms at our southern border. They are kept at separate facilities for indeterminate periods of time. The parents are jailed and the children are put in the care of non-governmental agencies, sometimes in other states. It is hard to imagine that the higher rate of incarceration and the new system of calculated injury to children would not soon overwhelm existing arrangements no matter how many shelters and beds are provided for a frightened, heartbroken population of the very young, whose miseries are intended as a disincentive to future potential border-crossers.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-immigration-


Crossing the border is no 'duck walk.'

[Skybird]

Link broken.


Why is this practice run? Deterrance?

[Gerald]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...eshape-america AHH...another topic.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Vendor

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...eshape-america AHH...another topic.

A.a culture war. Well, two bloke heads going for each other, religious zealots and LGBT. Every action has reaction, and the LGBT side and the left had some party-time in past years . Trump and the opportunity he opens for orthodox Christians, is the strike-back.


I see both sides as extremists in this. And none of them will be beneficial for the US anyway, so why favouring the one over the other?

[Skybird]

First link works now.


Seems to be they separate children from illegal migrant parents who get jailed. While this may have a deterring effect (only statistics showing changes in migration rates could show that), I see no need for this family separation. They should do it like in Australia, where they get isolated and de facto held as prisoner for long time, but families are left together, I read.



The Australian model works best, it seems. Their illegal migration rate is below 2% (I read two or three years ago) of what it was in earlier times before the new polcies came into place. Its grim and absolutely discouraging, yes - and right that is why its deterring effect works so well. Illegals do not want to go there anymore.


Westerners must understand that you cannot protect a border without practicing the amount of force and determination needed for that. If you are welcoming and soft-hearted, more will come, and ever more, becasue you are welcomign and soft-hearted. The more you care for them, the more will come. Gunnar Heinsohn counted out in an article some days ago that in Africa and Arabia alone 700 million people (compare that to the misleading by the UN talking of 68 million worldwide...) want to move out and towards Europe. Until 2050 he shows this number to increase to 1.2 billion.


If we do not want to completely lose our countries that we call a home, we have to be cruel and do drastic things. Either that, or we destroy ourselves - and with us that culture and standards that allowed developments that resulted in a status that made our still homes so attractive to flee to for the others. And for some of them who tick by some supremacist religious ideology we even are just a tasty prey waiting to get conquered demographically.

[Gerald]

Originally Posted by Skybird

Link broken.


Why is this practice run? Deterrance?

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...?CMP=edit_2221

[Onkel Neal]

The responsibility lies with the parents, they are setting this situation up. They know it is illegal to enter a different country without the proper paperwork and permission. If anyone is to blame for splitting up families, it's Senor Mom and Dad.

[Mr Quatro]

What if the mothers and fathers and elder family members even are encouraging the youth to cross over the border for purposes of finding a better life and send US Postal Money Orders home too.

I've heard many say that there were no jobs, no money, no hope, no future of staying in the rural areas of Mexico that they were in. In other words it was worth the chance to cross over to just be able to send money back to feed there families.

I've always thought the problem lies with Mexico itself not being able to handle any of their problems from gangsters to drugs to illegal's to compassion on the poor.

[Bilge_Rat]

typical gross exaggeration by the anti-Trump media. All the U.S. is doing is enforcing their immigration laws, Something every other nation on earth does.

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

typical gross exaggeration by the anti-Trump media. All the U.S. is doing is enforcing their immigration laws, Something every other nation on earth does.

Not if you're an EU member.

[em2nought]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

typical gross exaggeration by the anti-Trump media. All the U.S. is doing is enforcing their immigration laws, Something every other nation on earth does.

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Not if you're an EU member.

Just the price they have to pay in order to get good döner kebab.

[Rockstar]

From what little information there is about this separation issue. During the last administration a Californian federal judge ruled detaining children in a jail-like facility is not allowed. That ruling prompted the last administration to arbitrarily began releasing immigrant families into the United States.

I suppose then if this administration is going to enforce immigration laws. They will need to detain people until their asylum request can be heard. But in order to comply with the judges order they may need to move some of the children to better facilities. Having been involved in interdicting aliens at the border and repatriating them. It isn't easy for anyone and I'm sure it takes even more of a psychological toll on the parents and children.

[JU_88]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

Not if you're an EU member.

The clocks ticking on that one.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Bilge_Rat

typical gross exaggeration by the anti-Trump media. All the U.S. is doing is enforcing their immigration laws, Something every other nation on earth does.

GERMANY does not! And is proud of it!!! Moral claim trumps the law and order of the state!!!!!! We even let stay those who got negative asyulm eplies. We even interrupt the majority of operations aiming at picking up and sending back a tiny fraction of those who were found to have no legal claim to stay.

[Catfish]

If the US came to grips getting drugs under control and not importing those for billions of dollars from Mexico, the 'market' in Mexico could be broken, and at least some laws reintroduced.
The drug war in Mexico meanwhile involves all, and this is why most want to flee. Literally.

" [...]Other ideas Republican primary candidates have pondered lately include eliminating birthright citizenship, which is guaranteed by the 14th amendment to the Constitution, because some argue that it acts as a magnet for undocumented immigrants.

While these ideas might energize the GOP’s conservative base, they wouldn’t do much to deter illegal immigration, for one simple reason: All of these propositions rest on the false assumption that most undocumented immigrants are crossing into the U.S. primarily to look for a better life and a higher-paying job.

Anyone who speaks to undocumented immigrants regularly knows that they invariably view the dangerous and expensive trip into the U.S. as a last resort, usually because something went horribly wrong at home — not because of dreams of having a child who is a U.S. citizen. [...]"

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...1?guccounter=1

If you want to get a faint glimpse of what is really going on there, you could read Don Winslow's books 'The power of the dog' or 'The Cartel'. This is nothing else than war between the cartels that has spread all over the country, and they stop at nothing. From burning people alive to killing any journalist who dares to write about it, to machine-gunning families or imposing "taxes" on everyone, so bare living is becoming impossible.