Engage range and spread technique?

Stewy1 · 05-21-16, 06:41 AM

G'day guys,

I've been reading the Sub Command Tips manual - it suggested firing a spread of 3 torps with the last two offset by 30 degrees left and right.

Engaging at 12,000 yds - and doing the maths, that means the second and third torps will be almost 7,000 yds from the original.

I prefer a spread of 10 degrees left and right (firing 30 seconds after the original), which means torps 2 and 3 will only be 2,120 yds from the original bearing at 12000 yds.

I tried a mission just now (in a Flt 1 LA boat), and detected a Delta SSBN at 20,000 yds, I thought, 'might as well' and fired a three torp spread. I got a hit on the first shot.

Which got me thinking - what's the best range to fire and what's your 'spread' technique? Often once you fire, you have to go deep and evade, so you have to 'trust' the torps to do their job quite a lot. I'm guessing 'setting up the shot well' will lead to more kills while you're busy racing at 32 knots and blasting decoys every 3 minutes!

Cheers
Stew

FPSchazly · 05-25-16, 08:27 AM

I like to get in pretty close before I fire. Usually 10000 yards or less for conventionally propelled torps. Anything that gives my opponent less time to react. If I'm in a Russian boat, I'll definitely be trying to use Shkvals, and you have to be in real close for those!

A while ago, I did a quick derivation of maximum engage range for a torpedo and minimum safe distance from being shot at by an opponent. I'll link that video here:

It's not a precise calculation because engagements are not precise things, so there's some variable conservatism built in to the resultant values.

On spread technique, that actually sounds like a decent idea for long-range Shkval shots.. I would probably try and do it with two torpedoes, though. Three is a lot! Especially if you're in a boat that only has four tubes. I can't remember the last time I shot two torpedoes down a bearing. Even if one torpedo doesn't hit, at least I've hopefully shaken up the other guy and got him to run away somewhat, allowing a reset to the engagement that will hopefully result in me having the upper hand.

Stewy1 · 05-26-16, 01:04 AM

Thanks FPSchazly - that was an interesting video (for someone like me, who's math-phobic), I actually understood it!

Have you done a video on plotting an intercept course 'for dummies' too?

I've tried to follow the Silent Hunter tutorial on this forum - but I don't understand it...Maths/Math isn't my strong suit

Cheers mate
Stew

FPSchazly · 06-01-16, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewy1

Thanks FPSchazly - that was an interesting video (for someone like me, who's math-phobic), I actually understood it!

Have you done a video on plotting an intercept course 'for dummies' too?

I've tried to follow the Silent Hunter tutorial on this forum - but I don't understand it...Maths/Math isn't my strong suit

Cheers mate
Stew

Glad you understood it! I'm always worried I get too convoluted when math is involved

I have not made a video on plotting an intercept course. I've always just done it on the fly using the map and doing some math in my head. I suppose I could better document that if people so desired to see such a thing haha (I have no idea what the proper procedure is, but I think the way Sonalysts shows the map takes care of the potentially weird math).

jadervason · 10-31-16, 06:42 PM

When it comes to max no-escape range/min safe distance I prefer a little dirtier of a method.

Torpedo gain rate * torpedo run time. Let's take my favorite example first...

Torpedo gain rate: 55 knot Mk48 adcap gaining on a 43 knot Alfa is 12 knot gain rate.

Torpedo run time: 55 knot Mk 48 can go 23(?) nautical miles = 25 minute run time. ((23nm/55knots)=.4 hours*60minutes=25minutes)) (For figuring safe distance also consider the # of minutes it will take you to put the torpedo directly behind you and reach top speed.)

Gaining at 12 knots for 25 minutes = 405 yards/minute * 25 minutes = 10125 yards max no-escape range on an Alfa.

Now assuming for some reason the target is a Sturgeon or Ohio or Rubis(?) with 25 knot top speed.

Torpedo gain rate: 55 knot Mk48 adcap gaining on a 25 knot sub is 30 knot gain rate.

Gaining at 30 knots for 25 minutes = 1012(!) yards/minute * 25 minutes = 25300 yard max no-escape range on a 25 knot boat.

Ok but what about the poor Alfa skipper?

40 knot TEST-71 can go 15km/8.1 nautical miles for a run time of 12.2 minutes.

40 knot TEST-71 - 33 knot 688 = 7 knot gain rate

7 knot gain rate * 12.2 minutes = 236 yards/minute * 12 minutes = 2879 yard no-escape zone. Poor Alfa skipper

So the finally tally.

Mk48 no-escape range against Alfa = 10125yards
Mk48 no-escape range against 25 knot boat = 25300 yards
TEST-71 no escape range against 33 knot boat = 2879 yards

Did I overlook anything? Let me know

Italian Captain · 11-03-16, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPSchazly

I love this man!!

05-21-16, 06:41 AM	#1
Stewy1 Girt by Sea Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Red Route 1 Posts: 391 Downloads: 176 Uploads: 40	Engage range and spread technique? G'day guys, I've been reading the Sub Command Tips manual - it suggested firing a spread of 3 torps with the last two offset by 30 degrees left and right. Engaging at 12,000 yds - and doing the maths, that means the second and third torps will be almost 7,000 yds from the original. I prefer a spread of 10 degrees left and right (firing 30 seconds after the original), which means torps 2 and 3 will only be 2,120 yds from the original bearing at 12000 yds. I tried a mission just now (in a Flt 1 LA boat), and detected a Delta SSBN at 20,000 yds, I thought, 'might as well' and fired a three torp spread. I got a hit on the first shot. Which got me thinking - what's the best range to fire and what's your 'spread' technique? Often once you fire, you have to go deep and evade, so you have to 'trust' the torps to do their job quite a lot. I'm guessing 'setting up the shot well' will lead to more kills while you're busy racing at 32 knots and blasting decoys every 3 minutes! Cheers Stew

05-25-16, 08:27 AM	#2
FPSchazly Good Hunting! Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Beantown Posts: 776 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 1	I like to get in pretty close before I fire. Usually 10000 yards or less for conventionally propelled torps. Anything that gives my opponent less time to react. If I'm in a Russian boat, I'll definitely be trying to use Shkvals, and you have to be in real close for those! A while ago, I did a quick derivation of maximum engage range for a torpedo and minimum safe distance from being shot at by an opponent. I'll link that video here: It's not a precise calculation because engagements are not precise things, so there's some variable conservatism built in to the resultant values. On spread technique, that actually sounds like a decent idea for long-range Shkval shots.. I would probably try and do it with two torpedoes, though. Three is a lot! Especially if you're in a boat that only has four tubes. I can't remember the last time I shot two torpedoes down a bearing. Even if one torpedo doesn't hit, at least I've hopefully shaken up the other guy and got him to run away somewhat, allowing a reset to the engagement that will hopefully result in me having the upper hand. __________________ Your friendly neighborhood modern submarine YouTuber. My videos: Exclusive Look at Modern Naval Warfare! Dangerous Waters Liu Doctrine (LwAmi Learn to play Dangerous Waters

05-26-16, 01:04 AM	#3
Stewy1 Girt by Sea Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Red Route 1 Posts: 391 Downloads: 176 Uploads: 40	Thanks FPSchazly - that was an interesting video (for someone like me, who's math-phobic), I actually understood it! Have you done a video on plotting an intercept course 'for dummies' too? I've tried to follow the Silent Hunter tutorial on this forum - but I don't understand it...Maths/Math isn't my strong suit Cheers mate Stew

10-31-16, 06:42 PM	#5
jadervason Bosun Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 69 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	When it comes to max no-escape range/min safe distance I prefer a little dirtier of a method. Torpedo gain rate * torpedo run time. Let's take my favorite example first... Torpedo gain rate: 55 knot Mk48 adcap gaining on a 43 knot Alfa is 12 knot gain rate. Torpedo run time: 55 knot Mk 48 can go 23(?) nautical miles = 25 minute run time. ((23nm/55knots)=.4 hours60minutes=25minutes)) (For figuring safe distance also consider the # of minutes it will take you to put the torpedo directly behind you and reach top speed.) Gaining at 12 knots for 25 minutes = 405 yards/minute 25 minutes = 10125 yards max no-escape range on an Alfa. Now assuming for some reason the target is a Sturgeon or Ohio or Rubis(?) with 25 knot top speed. Torpedo gain rate: 55 knot Mk48 adcap gaining on a 25 knot sub is 30 knot gain rate. Gaining at 30 knots for 25 minutes = 1012(!) yards/minute * 25 minutes = 25300 yard max no-escape range on a 25 knot boat. Ok but what about the poor Alfa skipper? 40 knot TEST-71 can go 15km/8.1 nautical miles for a run time of 12.2 minutes. 40 knot TEST-71 - 33 knot 688 = 7 knot gain rate 7 knot gain rate * 12.2 minutes = 236 yards/minute * 12 minutes = 2879 yard no-escape zone. Poor Alfa skipper So the finally tally. Mk48 no-escape range against Alfa = 10125yards Mk48 no-escape range against 25 knot boat = 25300 yards TEST-71 no escape range against 33 knot boat = 2879 yards Did I overlook anything? Let me know