What Would Happen if Russia and America's Most Powerful Nuclear Subs Went to War?

[Onkel Neal]

What Would Happen if Russia and America's Most Powerful Nuclear Submarines Went to War?

The Virginia class is quieter and has a better sonar rig than its Russian opponent. In the world of submarine warfare, that’s an unbeatable combination. It can move and detect in ways that would give away Severodvinsk. One thing to be said for Severodvinsk is that it is more capable of quickly responding to a sudden target opportunity via her supersonic Klub ASW missiles. As for near term prospects, the usability of the Virginia’s sonar improves on a regular basis via software updates. Severodvinsk may not be able to update its sonar suite, and making the Russian submarines quieter may not be easily implemented. Overall, the edge has to be given to the Virginia class.
The United States Navy’s submarine force emerged from the Cold War as the undisputed masters of the undersea realm. The elite, all-nuclear submarine force watched as its Soviet submarine force rivals rusted away pierside, the newly founded Russian Federation unable to maintain them.

After more than twenty years of American submarine supremacy, a new challenger has arisen from the deep. Slightly familiar and almost two decades in the making, it’s an unusual challenge to U.S. naval superiority, but nevertheless one with a long, lethal pedigree. How does this new old upstart, Russia’s Yasen-class submarine, compare with the new backbone of the U.S. submarine force, the Virginia class?

Sounds like a new version of Sub Command is needed.

[Oberon]

Of course, the next question is how Skhval alters the balance, with the US currently unable to reply in kind. Of course, the Skhval needs a good solution to hit its target, so that comes down to sonar arrays again, although one could theorise a Russian submarine going active to get a solution and then throwing a Skhval at the American sub. The question would be whether the American sub could get a snapshot off on the bearing of the active ping before the Skhval smashes into it and whether that ADCAP would be able to get the Russian sub on its own without guidance from the American sub.

[Onkel Neal]

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Russians have developed an improved Skval that can be set with a launch delay, giving the Russian sub time to clear the launch site.

[Commander Wallace]

The Skval creates a semi permeable " bubble " around it while in transit and isn't really able to hear it's opponent. I'm thinking it would have to be wire guided.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Onkel Neal

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the Russians have developed an improved Skval that can be set with a launch delay, giving the Russian sub time to clear the launch site.

That would make sense. Of course, the problem is target guidance, since I'm not sure how effective any form of sonar system on board the torpedo would be, and at the same time I highly doubt that it would be wire-guided, so it would have to have some form of terminal guidance. Laser perhaps?

I tell you, that torpedo has left a lasting impression on me after a Victor III threw one at me in SC. My poor sonar operator didn't even get to finish his torpedo in the water warning before I was hit. It's a powerful thing.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

The Skval creates a semi permeable " bubble " around it while in transit and isn't really able to hear it's opponent. I'm thinking it would have to be wire guided.

You'd need a good reel to handle the wire going out at 347mph. The friction alone would be horrendous.

[Commander Wallace]

Originally Posted by Oberon

You'd need a good reel to handle the wire going out at 347mph. The friction alone would be horrendous.

That's a given and radical turns would probably induce depth and pitch problems as well.

[Castout]

The title should have been:
What Would Happen if Russia's and America's Most Powerful Nuclear Subs Went to War?


We need a new Sub Command / Dangerous Waters indeed......but the RA mod for Dangerous Waters fills that gap meanwhile.

Yasen's hull design I think is a throwback to 1960s/1970s period. I don't really like the design. Very much prefer the Akula's. The fin/sail looks so old too because it is so far forward. It reminds me of the November-class. Yasen looks like a modernized version of the November to me.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Commander Wallace

The Skval creates a semi permeable " bubble " around it while in transit and isn't really able to hear it's opponent. I'm thinking it would have to be wire guided.

It's so fast your target is most likely still be loitering around your tracked location thus it is less likely to benefit from a wire guided system.

What subs need perhaps are anti-torpedo torpedoes and 'terminal homing jammer'.

[Rockstar]

If super cavitation torpedos are so badass why doesnt the U.S. develope and deploy its own? Other than using it to scare the tax payers to fork over more cash for Navy R&D projects I dont see what use the Russian Skhval is.

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

If super cavitation torpedos are so badass why doesnt the U.S. develope and deploy its own? Other than using it to scare the tax payers to fork over more cash for Navy R&D projects I dont see what use the Russian Skhval is.

The French and Germans developed theirs. That's a testament to their lethality. Perhaps the U.S. has it in its arsenal in limited number and put the weapon deployment as classified.

A second more plausible reason is that the U.S. is very confident of their superior sonar suite and quietening technology that the relatively short-ranged or medium-ranged (around 5 nmi) super-cativation torpedoes aren't needed. That there are no subs expected to be capable to get within 5 nmi of a U.S. nuclear sub.

However, with the proliferation of AIP subs that might change. The thing is I think the U.S. might assume that no diesel-electric or AIP sub can match its nuclear attack subs in deployment speed thus the chance of encountering those subs in open seas is minimum. However, this might not hold true any longer when the opponent nation only needs to defend a limited sea area and the U.S. is required to go past its defenses. Then these small diesel-electric/AIP subs are likely to encounter U.S. nuclear subs and even challenge their super carriers deployed within the defended area. After all, a nation can always build far more smaller subs than costlier nuclear subs.

The U.S. might still be locked in their cold-war thinking. Although the Virginia is designed to operate in shallow waters, it never thought of more effective ways to counter super silent diesel-electric/AIP subs in those shallow/shallower waters.

[Oberon]

Originally Posted by Rockstar

If super cavitation torpedos are so badass why doesnt the U.S. develope and deploy its own? Other than using it to scare the tax payers to fork over more cash for Navy R&D projects I dont see what use the Russian Skhval is.

The US is developing its own, but it seems to be stuck in development hell.
Germany is also developing one, the Barracuda Superkavitierender Unterwasserlaufkörper.

[Jimbuna]

The Iranians are also claiming to have one called Hoot (Whale).

[Castout]

Originally Posted by Jimbuna

The Iranians are also claiming to have one called Hoot (Whale).

or it could simply be Russian Shkval bought by them. I have seen them test firing it on Youtube.

Edit: Seems analysts think the Hoot is reverse-engineered from Russian Shkval...

[Jimbuna]

Originally Posted by Castout

or it could simply be Russian Shkval bought by them. I have seen them test firing it on Youtube.

Edit: Seems analysts think the Hoot is reverse-engineered from Russian Shkval...

Wouldn't surprise me in the least.