Should I be keel-hauled?

[washishu]

This will probably be almost sacrilegious to many here I suspect, but sometimes I really enjoy playing around with the external camera; it’s like being in your own U-Boat movie. Usually—as on a recent occasion—I play the Happy Times standard mission and at various times throughout the approach, attack and any subsequent pursuit, I watch the proceedings on the camera. Although it’s not possible 100%, I try not to use the information the camera gives me to formulate or to improve my attack—that would be cheating.

[Torplexed]

No, not really. I'm pretty sure every player has been guilty of it at some point. I've often convinced myself I'll only use it in the non-combat situations, but once the shooting starts, it's hard to resist that much eye-candy.

[Rambler241]

Although it’s not possible 100%, I try not to use the information the camera gives me to formulate or to improve my attack—that would be cheating.

Of course - we trust you implicitly.

I'm running two campaigns, and I've left the external view enabled on one. I rather like watching enemy bombers attacking the spot where I was, and not where I am. I also like switching to an attacking aircraft when, in a fit of bravado, madness or both, I've decided to let my experienced flak gunner and officer shoot down a couple or so using the twin-barrelled 2cm Flakzwilling. That weapon is a highly recommended upgrade. "Shooting it out" was, for a while, an official Dönitz policy, it seems. Hmmmm.

Incidentally, how do enemy bombers know which precise bit of anonymous, all-looks-the-same sea surface to return to after their quarry has submerged? Do they have primitive GPS, or a homing instinct like pidgeons? In RL of course, larger aircraft might drop marker dye, but not early in the war, methinks.

[Torplexed]

Originally Posted by Rambler241

Incidentally, how do enemy bombers know which precise bit of anonymous, all-looks-the-same sea surface to return to after their quarry has submerged? Do they have primitive GPS, or a homing instinct like pidgeons? In RL of course, larger aircraft might drop marker dye, but not early in the war, methinks.

I can't speak for the game, but in real life a submerging submarine depending on sea and light conditions often left a a persistent swath of bubbles, foam, residual oil and disturbed water, that served as a handy visual marker from the air on where the sub had left the surface.

[UKönig]

Radar.

It has a longer range and can detect such a small target like a periscope or snorkel mast, that you're really not as hidden as you think...

[Sailor Steve]

Originally Posted by washishu

I play the Happy Times standard mission

That's what the Single Missions are for...practice. It's fun to play those missions and watch what the enemy ships are doing, and how it affects your boat.

I leave the external cams on all the time, even in campaigns. I don't use them during attacks, but I love taking screenshots of ships sinking and of harbor scenes. It's just one of those things.

[Rambler241]

Radar yes, but not in 1940, and not when at 40m depth. Disturbed water of course, but not for 10 minutes after submerging to a safe, bomb-proof depth. The question still stands.

[UKönig]

Ships and aircraft had radar in 1940. Not as many sets to go around, to be sure, and it was kinda primitive still, but it worked.
The water disturbed by a crash diving U-boat could remain churned up for a good 5 minutes after the fact. So, 10 minutes is probably safe margin. But aircraft have radio, and can report your last known position. Since a submerged boat can't go very fast (and the Tommies know this), you aren't likely to have gotten very far from your dive point, by the time that more planes show up.

You may also be getting gamed by the game. And it's strictly a programming thing designed to make the player more nervous, and less casual about incoming aircraft.

[Rambler241]

But aircraft have radio, and can report your last known position

To within a couple of hundred metres accuracy? During WWII?

[UKönig]

What if your boat was damaged and leaking oil? It would rise to the surface, and the slick would mark your position. Many a U-boat had been sunk in this manner.
If you have no damage, and they just keep finding you, well, go with it, it's just a game after all. How much fun would this really be if all you got to look at was ocean waves? If all you got was simulated seasickness? I've been sea sick, trust me, it is no picnic. If you're like me, then your U-boat captain needs some adventure from time to time. I don't mind if it's not completely accurate.

[Zosimus]

I wish I had these problems. My problems normally involve going weeks of game time without finding anything.

[washishu]

So it appears, then, that if I am to be keel-hauled, at least there's a queue of others behind me. And I like the notion of switching to another camera—that hadn't occurred to me. If you switch to the ship being attacked can you see the wake (of a G7a)? And if the ship is sunk, how long does the camera stay with it as it sinks? These are things I must try.

[UKönig]

Yes, if you switch to the alternate unit with the "<" or ">" keys, and there is a G7a on its way in, you will see the bubble track marking the approach.

The camera goes wonky if you let it go all the way past the point of impact. That is, I will watch the action until I get the explosion, then I will jump back to the F12 or free view, so it doesn't glitch my view.

[Niedowidek]

Well, I'm using external camera to check if my torpedo solution was accurate. With full manual targeting (with Hitman GUI), no map updates and no event camera I wouldn't have any means to judge if I have even shot in general direction of a target ;-) (Inter alia I have newbie tendency to mistake port- and star-board side or green/red semicircle when setting torpedovorhalterechner). I don't use external camera to watch destroyers or to help locate the target.

I assumed that I can use external camera to watch incoming torpedoes as a part of my training. Later, when I'm sure that I can compute right torpedo solution, I'll stop using external camera for tracking my torpedoes.

Now it helps a lot, especially when I have duds or when I set incorrect depth for torpedo. At least I see that my solution was correct (for example: torpedo coming below the ship but not exploding).

IIRC real captains had to make 66 training attacks on surface and the same number submerged, at least when trained before war. I didn't have patience to spend so much time in training mission in game ;-)

[Rambler241]

UKönig said:

What if your boat was damaged and leaking oil?

I'm referring to one of the quirks of SH3, and there are of course, many. I find this one amusing - in fact it makes it easier to survive an attack. It's obvious the AI knows the exact spot (to the metre) your boat was last seen, and attacking aircraft use that, with a little random inaccuracy thrown in, of course.

You're reading more into what I said than what I intended. On one patrol, I was in the process of attacking a Coastal Merchant with the deck gun, when a half-dozen Hurri-bombers appeared and bombed the sea about 3-400 metres behind my boat - presumably that was my last reported position. It takes a while to submerge from stationary (ahead flank, dive), but it was obvious they were "on orders" to bomb that precise position, and ignored a large, stationary enemy target, so we were saved by the AI.

Incidentally, SH3 always delivers surprises - on my last patrol, I was submerged, stalking a C3, ready to surface parallel and attack by gun (don't alert the quarry too early when there are lots of aircraft around), when it was bombed by a FW Condor, which was in turn attacked by three Hurricanes, one of which was hit by return fire, trailing smoke and flames. All 4 disappeared from sight (the observation 'scope gives a wide field of view - don't ignore it, use it), so I surfaced and attacked the C3. As we left the scene, we were almost immediately attacked by presumably, the damaged Hurricane, which was shot down on its second pass.