Intercepting submerged

j4ckkn1fe · 04-07-15, 08:35 PM

So I have been doing fairly well in career mode and the war is starting to pick up. I have decided to hunt in well trafficked waters I.E. BF 13-15. It's getting harder and harder to intercept targets while surfaced and I have been checking out some tutorials on intercepting while submerged.

I am using OLC GUI and going along with "passive sonar approach revisited". At one point they say to use SACF to get the AOB of the target. I am having difficulty finding it in OLC. Once I have it I can get the true bearing to target.

Also on a side note...How do I activate the compass ring around the angle protractor tool? I just have a cross hair to place angles. I have read in multiple places to press the ? on the map but I don't have one with OLC GUI installed.

Thanks for the help!! This community rocks even though I have been a lurker :P

Pisces · 04-08-15, 08:48 AM

Enable this little mod with JSGME and you get the compass scale on all tools.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1308

As for the SACF, it realy is the American version of the German 'Angriffscheibe' ('Attackdisk'). So it's a different thing which you'll find in SH4 mods. But yeah, same thing in practice, it calculates between relative bearing, true bearing AOB and own course. The button to get it to the front is the knob on the right above the message bar.

Pisces · 04-08-15, 09:14 AM

Note:

There is also the 'Range and AOB finder' which is sometimes confused with the Attackdisk. It is the rotating wheel thingy that replaces the stadimeter. It can be used to calculate the range and AOB based on horizontal and vertical measurements of the target and ID-ed mast-height. But in itself it cannot calculate the true bearing for you.

j4ckkn1fe · 04-08-15, 10:57 AM

Oh sweet thanks! So it really is the same thing? Alright I will try to mess around with it and see if I can figure it out. I have already been doing manual TDC so If I can understand that I can hopefully do this :P

j4ckkn1fe · 04-10-15, 02:23 AM

So I have been reading that I need the reverse side of the attack disk to determine speed and there is no reverse side. So I need another mod or is there another work around?

Right now I am just using the basic BDU surface intercept then when getting close I submerge and use the basic strategy to get closer.

I mean finding the true course of the target would be very useful in intercepting. I just keep making lines and getting more accurate the more lines I make.

Basically what I am asking is, how do I determine the targets AOB just from hydrophone bearing readings to be able to get a true course?

sublynx · 04-10-15, 06:13 AM

Hydrophone usage:

1. Google Kuikueg's four bearing method
2. Over in the SH3 downloads section there's a file called Canovaro's Document Collection. It contains Raduz's hydrophone hunting tutorial which is partly outdated but still usable.

The attack disc reverse side:
- try Magui F or Widescreen MaGui SA 3.4. It's based on OLC Gui. ( Unfortunately the front side of the attack disc in those mods does not have the Vorhalt indicator, though)

Pisces · 04-10-15, 08:05 AM

If you are handy with scissors, cardboard and laminating foil you can also make a hardcopy version of it. Then you can use it in any station and at any time you want. Or with any game that uses km to measure distance.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...do=file&id=321

There are more 4 bearing methods described here on the forum, under both the SH3, 4 and 5 section. Names of the thread-starters are Mittelwaechter, Nefelodam, Kuikeg, jerm138 and a few I can't recall right now.

Back in the early days I found a neat simple trick on the RAOBF wheel to calculate the intercept lead angle when left without other tools. I'm not a 100% sure it works on the latest scales OLC made in his GUI, or those made by others in their GUIs, but can't imagine why it would not work mathematically. (caveat: I had a migraine headache this morning and am recovering from the flu the past days. YMMV, check the numbers with the intercept formula)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...428#post694428

Pisces · 04-10-15, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by j4ckkn1fe

..
Basically what I am asking is, how do I determine the targets AOB just from hydrophone bearing readings to be able to get a true course?

Almost forgot. I made my own sliderule for this. Makmak94 included it in his Magui mods.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147719

Forget the note about 'angle on relative motion'. It causes more confusion than it clears up. Just go as slow as possible, dead stop if you can. Or if you must have speed to keep depth, head slowly in a direction towards the initial hydrophone bearing. (but keep rudder amidship! Make sure you are not turning while you are waiting for the bearings)

And very important is to stay patient during the process. The longer the period between the bearings, the more reliable or precise the AOB will be.

j4ckkn1fe · 04-11-15, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pisces

Almost forgot. I made my own sliderule for this. Makmak94 included it in his Magui mods.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=147719

Forget the note about 'angle on relative motion'. It causes more confusion than it clears up. Just go as slow as possible, dead stop if you can. Or if you must have speed to keep depth, head slowly in a direction towards the initial hydrophone bearing. (but keep rudder amidship! Make sure you are not turning while you are waiting for the bearings)

And very important is to stay patient during the process. The longer the period between the bearings, the more reliable or precise the AOB will be.

Ok sweet so I can use this instead of the four bearing method? Well I assume it's the same thing but more simplified. So I just print this sucker out and put it together? Damn Guess I'm going to staples and doing some arts n crafts.

Is there a guide to use this? I was never good with math and I'm the kind of person that likes to understand something fully even though I have already gotten a solution.

Also Is the RAOBF the same as OLC in magui? I would switch over but now I have finally gotten the OLC one down to muscle memory and I have the ACM reloaded mod for it so I can determine speed easier.

Pisces · 04-11-15, 12:17 PM

No, this is a 3-bearing tool. It ONLY tells you AOB (at 1st bearing). The AOB at the other bearings is a matter of adding the bearing differences. From that you can figure out it's probable course. But not where it is, or how fast.

The steps to perform are on the front disk. There is no guide to it other than that. Measure bearings with equal time intervals. Then line up the differences. That's it. Just give it time.

The 4-bearing methods can tell you AOB/Course but also range and speed. Al that you need to know. And it takes only a time period longer, and a bit more geometry drawing.

j4ckkn1fe · 04-11-15, 12:50 PM

This may sound stupid but how do I calculate the bearing differences? I just subtract or what?

Pisces · 04-11-15, 01:16 PM

Bearing 2 - bearing 1, and bearing 3 - bearing 1. Simple as that. Just the angles between them.

04-07-15, 08:35 PM	#1
j4ckkn1fe Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 13 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Intercepting submerged So I have been doing fairly well in career mode and the war is starting to pick up. I have decided to hunt in well trafficked waters I.E. BF 13-15. It's getting harder and harder to intercept targets while surfaced and I have been checking out some tutorials on intercepting while submerged. I am using OLC GUI and going along with "passive sonar approach revisited". At one point they say to use SACF to get the AOB of the target. I am having difficulty finding it in OLC. Once I have it I can get the true bearing to target. Also on a side note...How do I activate the compass ring around the angle protractor tool? I just have a cross hair to place angles. I have read in multiple places to press the ? on the map but I don't have one with OLC GUI installed. Thanks for the help!! This community rocks even though I have been a lurker :P

04-08-15, 08:48 AM	#2
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Enable this little mod with JSGME and you get the compass scale on all tools. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...postcount=1308 As for the SACF, it realy is the American version of the German 'Angriffscheibe' ('Attackdisk'). So it's a different thing which you'll find in SH4 mods. But yeah, same thing in practice, it calculates between relative bearing, true bearing AOB and own course. The button to get it to the front is the knob on the right above the message bar. Last edited by Pisces; 04-08-15 at 09:08 AM.

04-10-15, 06:13 AM	#6
sublynx Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: In the conning tower of my VIIC scanning the sea through the periscope Posts: 1,698 Downloads: 173 Uploads: 7	Hydrophone usage: 1. Google Kuikueg's four bearing method 2. Over in the SH3 downloads section there's a file called Canovaro's Document Collection. It contains Raduz's hydrophone hunting tutorial which is partly outdated but still usable. The attack disc reverse side: - try Magui F or Widescreen MaGui SA 3.4. It's based on OLC Gui. ( Unfortunately the front side of the attack disc in those mods does not have the Vorhalt indicator, though) __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] NYGM+H.sie v16+Stiebler 4C+MaGui WS

04-10-15, 08:05 AM	#7
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	If you are handy with scissors, cardboard and laminating foil you can also make a hardcopy version of it. Then you can use it in any station and at any time you want. Or with any game that uses km to measure distance. http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...do=file&id=321 There are more 4 bearing methods described here on the forum, under both the SH3, 4 and 5 section. Names of the thread-starters are Mittelwaechter, Nefelodam, Kuikeg, jerm138 and a few I can't recall right now. Back in the early days I found a neat simple trick on the RAOBF wheel to calculate the intercept lead angle when left without other tools. I'm not a 100% sure it works on the latest scales OLC made in his GUI, or those made by others in their GUIs, but can't imagine why it would not work mathematically. (caveat: I had a migraine headache this morning and am recovering from the flu the past days. YMMV, check the numbers with the intercept formula) http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/show...428#post694428 Last edited by Pisces; 04-10-15 at 08:30 AM.

04-08-15, 09:14 AM	#3
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Note: There is also the 'Range and AOB finder' which is sometimes confused with the Attackdisk. It is the rotating wheel thingy that replaces the stadimeter. It can be used to calculate the range and AOB based on horizontal and vertical measurements of the target and ID-ed mast-height. But in itself it cannot calculate the true bearing for you.

04-08-15, 10:57 AM	#4
j4ckkn1fe Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 13 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	Oh sweet thanks! So it really is the same thing? Alright I will try to mess around with it and see if I can figure it out. I have already been doing manual TDC so If I can understand that I can hopefully do this :P

04-10-15, 02:23 AM	#5
j4ckkn1fe Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 13 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	So I have been reading that I need the reverse side of the attack disk to determine speed and there is no reverse side. So I need another mod or is there another work around? Right now I am just using the basic BDU surface intercept then when getting close I submerge and use the basic strategy to get closer. I mean finding the true course of the target would be very useful in intercepting. I just keep making lines and getting more accurate the more lines I make. Basically what I am asking is, how do I determine the targets AOB just from hydrophone bearing readings to be able to get a true course?

04-11-15, 12:17 PM	#10
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	No, this is a 3-bearing tool. It ONLY tells you AOB (at 1st bearing). The AOB at the other bearings is a matter of adding the bearing differences. From that you can figure out it's probable course. But not where it is, or how fast. The steps to perform are on the front disk. There is no guide to it other than that. Measure bearings with equal time intervals. Then line up the differences. That's it. Just give it time. The 4-bearing methods can tell you AOB/Course but also range and speed. Al that you need to know. And it takes only a time period longer, and a bit more geometry drawing.

04-11-15, 12:50 PM	#11
j4ckkn1fe Swabbie Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 13 Downloads: 44 Uploads: 0	This may sound stupid but how do I calculate the bearing differences? I just subtract or what?

04-11-15, 01:16 PM	#12
Pisces Silent Hunter Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: AN9771 Posts: 4,904 Downloads: 304 Uploads: 0	Bearing 2 - bearing 1, and bearing 3 - bearing 1. Simple as that. Just the angles between them.