Having trouble getting the brain around..

[fastbikkel]

from a nuclear subsim to a ww2 subsim.

Since i had a lot of trouble with Subcommand in windows 7, i decided to take a break for now and do a ww2 sub sim.
I got a hold of SH4 and i have done one mission for now, without running into ships in visual range.

I seriously am baffled with the change. It will take me a while to realise what needs to be done.

I notice a lot of red targets on the map at certain times. Are these my own radar blips? Or are they notifications from other allied forces?

I never was able to find a ship when i headed for those red blips, thinking the ships was long gone already.
Even at 30k or so, i raced towards a red blip, only to find nothing again.

This is not a complaint, i have the patience to try more things.
I am just a bit careful not to race too hard and end up being spotted too early.

For now i am just reading through the forum here to get some decent info that will help a ww2 sub noob.
Planning is a more important factor now i notice, as i cannot overtake a ship underwater (unlike the nuke subs where i could just open up the throttle to get into a better firing position.)

I travel underwater during the day, only surface at night.

How well does my own radar work? Meaning that i could never find a red blip again after i noticed it on the map just once.

I did notice the sound detections though, some ships were loud enough. I passed two japanese destroyers at reasonable close range, but i was too scared to pop up. I also doubted i could cut them off, they had passed too quick.

Are the red blips, and their little "tail" representative for their direction? I mean, can i plan an intercept course on just one blip?

[Warren Peace]

I shall direct you here, as this should thread should take care of all your intercepting woes; (It was written for SHIII, but it absolutely works in IV)

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961

As for the red blips, I cannot say whether they are your radar or not (depending on what year you're in, you may not even have a surface search radar), as you will also get radio reports of enemy positions, including their rough heading and speed. The 'tail' located on the map contacts indicate the opposite direction of the target's heading (think of it as the wake).

Good hunting.

[fastbikkel]

Thanks for the link, i will look!

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by fastbikkel

I travel underwater during the day, only surface at night.

As a US World War 2 submarine skipper, this a scheme you should strive to avoid. You want to be on the surface as much as possible, especially in an ocean as large as the Pacific. Underwater you are essentially blind, you move at a crawl and then have to expend more fuel all night to recharge your batteries, slowing your patrol progress even further. Diving should reserved only for emergencies or attacks that require it. With air search radar you should never have to crash dive as you can detect an airplane at least 15 minutes before he's overhead. You should see every enemy convoy before he is aware of you. As long as you are on the surface, you have far superior situation awareness to determine whether to give battle or not. Happily, for the USN submarine force, most Japanese escorts didn't get fitted with surface radar until late in the conflict and even then it wasn't very good. You get radar almost from the start, so take full advantage of it.

Unlike their nuclear descendants, most WW2 submarine were essentially surface torpedo boats with a limited ability to dive.

[fastbikkel]

@Dread knot.

Makes sense, i will keep going on the surface for now then, until the "contact".

I was just real scared the enemy would spot me before them, leaving me vulnerable.

I guess i have to get used.

I must add though, i said i am underwater during the day, but i actually meant only in the patrol area. When steaming over there, i did stay above the surface.


I will give it another try tonight, i love the immersion so far.
And yeah, they indeed are surface ships that can go under. Completely different from a nuke sub.
Thanks!

[Dread Knot]

Originally Posted by fastbikkel

@Dread knot.

Makes sense, i will keep going on the surface for now then, until the "contact".

I was just real scared the enemy would spot me before them, leaving me vulnerable.

They can't get the jump on you have your radar going. Staying on the surface is advisible even in your patrol area.

We do sometimes get players coming over from SH3 (the U-Boat war in the Atlantic) who are somewhat aircraft-phobic due to they fact that U-Boats had to rely on visual lookouts to spot an aircraft approaching. That kind of aerial warning system usually left only seconds to dive the boat. It's less of a consideration in the Pacific where not only are you equipped with good radar in addition to visual lookouts, but the Japanese never had the sort of blanket aerial ASW coverage and resources the Allies eventually did.

[Warren Peace]

Originally Posted by Dread Knot

They can't get the jump on you have your radar going. Staying on the surface is advisible even in your patrol area.

We do sometimes get players coming over from SH3 (the U-Boat war in the Atlantic) who are somewhat aircraft-phobic due to they fact that U-Boats had to rely on visual lookouts to spot an aircraft approaching. That kind of aerial warning system usually left only seconds to dive the boat. It's less of a consideration in the Pacific where not only are you equipped with good radar in addition to visual lookouts, but the Japanese never had the sort of blanket aerial ASW coverage and resources the Allies eventually did.

This is exactly the problem I have. Played SHIII for a very long time, so the idea of keeping on the surface is terrifying. There should be a DA (Diver's Anonymous) group for SH III players transitioning to IV.

[merc4ulfate]

688 and subcommand are a piece of cake to play over these sims having to do with world war 2.

Manual targeting, limited fuel and batteries and early on there was no surface radar and not even air search for some. There is no diving to 2000 feet here nor flank blowing ballast and doing 60 knots on the way up.

There is a surface ship dropping bombs on you moving at 33 knots when the best you can do is 2 knots if you want to be quiet.

... and those wire guided fish they reach out and touch thing at 20 miles are now duds that blow up in your face 20 seconds after they have left the boat. GUESS WHO KNOW WHERE YOU ARE NOW????

Turn everything to manual add some really good mods from Traveller, Webster and things like TMO, RFB and Operation Monsun and find new ways to sweat out with your engine flooded headed for the bottom to only hope you can get it repaired before the sonar gurus hear your screaming crew and drop deeper depth charges on you thanks to a certain congressman telling them they they were attack us to shallow.

Although on the bright side I never heard a WW2 boat captain running his crew into an undersea moutain.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by fastbikkel

@Dread knot.

Makes sense, i will keep going on the surface for now then, until the "contact".

I was just real scared the enemy would spot me before them, leaving me vulnerable.

I'm guessing you are playing stock?

It is hard to give firm advice, as most of us play with mods that significantly alter the game.

If your map contacts are close (20 or 30 mi.), they are probably from your own radar. If you are having trouble intercepting them, you can still make attacks successfully. Most submarine attacks were happenstance affairs. If you are astride enemy sea lanes, you will see targets sooner or later.

As far as staying on the surface or submerging, I'd say it all depends on circumstances. If the area is dangerous (too many aircraft), I'd run submerged at 2 kt. during the day. Fuel use is a concern, but you should be able to recharge at this rate without drastically depleting your fuel.



If you have v1.5 of the game, you should consider loading up a good selection of mods. The stock game has many flaws, and few stick with it for long.

[fastbikkel]

I have stock alright, i did not even know there were mods yet ;-)

Thanks for all the replies guys, it did help.

Did a few more runs yesterday, i actually managed to do an intercept course after spotting a "possible target" on the map.

I got real close, to within 1mile and popped up the scope, only to find out it was a fishing boat. Well i let him have it anyway, opening up with the deck gun. (he was unarmedm so hey ;-)

I was too excited after gazing at a beautiful bonfire on the deck of the ship, i missed the message that two zeros were coming in for an attack.
CRAP!
Man the guns! Fire at will!
I did notice something black dropping from the attacking planes, bombs!!

Loud explosions around me, i selected to go deep. Here i went wrong again lol.
The boat indeed tried to go deep but i heard a bang and a loud scraping noise. Ooh man, undeep water, i hit a bunch of big rocks.
I did attempt to fix it all, but the sub eventually sunk, bulkhead damage.
(in real life we would probably have been able to escape the sub, it was really shallow water)


I am getting there.
Did another run after that without chaos, the intercept courses are improving already. I want to raise the realism level quick though, that is what i am after eventually.

[Akotalaya]

Originally Posted by TorpX

As far as staying on the surface or submerging, I'd say it all depends on circumstances. If the area is dangerous (too many aircraft), I'd run submerged at 2 kt. during the day. Fuel use is a concern, but you should be able to recharge at this rate without drastically depleting your fuel.

in a normal fleet boat run at around 9 kts, you will get better range, so fuel wont ever be an issue. your range will go up to around 22,000 nm so dont worry too much..just start looking into getting back home when your starting to hit the 30% mark...this is good advice for someone new!

[Warren Peace]

Originally Posted by fastbikkel

Loud explosions around me, i selected to go deep. Here i went wrong again lol.
The boat indeed tried to go deep but i heard a bang and a loud scraping noise. Ooh man, undeep water, i hit a bunch of big rocks.
I did attempt to fix it all, but the sub eventually sunk, bulkhead damage.
(in real life we would probably have been able to escape the sub, it was really shallow water)

So much for WWII sub captains not running their boats into undersea mountains. Don't worry about it, I've done worse. I slammed my boat at 12 knots into one of the harbor walls outside of Sarubaya (plotted course without zooming in the map, came in at 256 TC, SLAM! My boat actually clipped into the wall and I couldn't reverse out).

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Warren Peace

Don't worry about it, I've done worse. I slammed my boat at 12 knots into one of the harbor walls outside of Sarubaya (plotted course without zooming in the map, came in at 256 TC, SLAM! My boat actually clipped into the wall and I couldn't reverse out).

Yes, TC has been the bane of many a skipper. Put '...ran aground in a storm..' in the log.

[fastbikkel]

Short update, after this i will make some new topics if needed.

Have patches my SH4 up to 1.4
That did change somethings.

Have done a few missions, with success.
Total number of ships downed 9.
7 merchant vessels, one of which had a deck gun as well and almost killed us.
2 small destroyers.

Most exciting was one of the destroyers, i attacked a japanese taskforce that kind of ran into me after i wasted a merchant.
This was exciting for sure, i had little chance but went for it anyway.
I aimed 4 torps manually into the taskforce, hoping i would hit something.

After launch, i went deep to try and get the hell out of there. I heard a loud explosion after some time and the statusscreen mentioned the sunk destroyer.
Now all hell broke loose above the surface, flares going up, ships weaving in all directions trying to find me.
I was really surprised i made it out.
Adrenaline, immersion, wow what a sim.