GWX can present some serious challenges!

GJO · 03-06-14, 06:31 AM

On my 11th patrol about 200 miles off the African Coast, South of Freetown, I get a hydrophone contact from a merchant closing at slow speed. Feeling confident (I had already bagged 33,000 tons on this patrol) I plotted the course and set my own course to intercept. Visibility was very poor and I hoped to use this to my advantage. The single contact developed into a small convoy and when the first ship was visible through my periscope I could identify it as a 'Large Merchant' followed closely by a 'Modern Tanker' both ships were unlit but as I set myself on a parallel course for a submerged attack, I could just make out the Stars and Stripes ensign of the first ship. It was May 1941 so this was still a neutral target. As neither ships appeared to be armed, I decided to surface to get a better look. Closing on a parallel course to within 150 Metres of the tanker, I could see that this too was flying the American ensign - I have tried my best to avoid attacking neutral vessels so I put the crew back to cruising stations and was about to turn away when the WO spotted a third ship - this had been hiding behind the tanker and was still too far away for me to get a a decent view of it but it was clearly a lot bigger than the tanker. As I tried to manoeuvre closer to the third vessel a 'Somers' class warship suddenly appeared coming straight toward me at high speed and then turned across my bows forcing me to take evasive action. The warship was also American and did not fire on me. I was now in the middle of four vessels all manoeuvring in a hectic fashion - the tanker was still putting itself between my boat and the larger, as yet unidentified, ship - the warship was darting in and out all over the place and the 'Large Merchant' had turned round and was now coming back towards me - despite all of this, I managed to get close enough to the third ship to identify it as a 'Ceramic' class ocean liner flying a British Red Ensign. Fortunately it wasn't armed so I prepared to attack it on the surface. For almost two hours I struggled to get a clear torpedo shot with the other ships continually protecting the target by placing themselves between it and my boat - visibility remained bad and I had to use a fair bit of guess work and manoeuvring to stay in contact while not running into the other vessels or the erratically circling warship. Eventually (and partly in desperation) I fired a torpedo from the bow when I was directly behind the target at a range of 350 Metres. The torpedo exploded under the target's stern and brought its speed down until it eventually stopped in the water. The other vessels still tried to put themselves between my boat and the target but I managed to get another torpedo shot which exploded amidships. Visibility was still poor and the other ships continued to baulk me. Nevertheless, the liner was now settling in the water and after another ten minutes or so I was able to observe it going down as my crew cheered and with 20,000 tons plus added to my bag! The American warship never fired a shot and I left the scene on the surface with visibility still so poor that they were all soon out of sight.

It was an exciting and challenging battle but I didn't live to tell the tale - returning to St Nazaire, I launched an attack on an armed ore carrier just off Cape Finnistere, I should have let it go because I had no torpedoes left and in an exchange of gunfire, where I thought I was getting the better of him, until a shell made a direct hit on my control room causing my boat to sink with all hands.

banryu79 · 03-06-14, 08:43 AM

Nice and intresting story

Quote:

It was an exciting and challenging battle but I didn't live to tell the tale - returning to St Nazaire, I launched an attack on an armed ore carrier just off Cape Finnistere, I should have let it go because I had no torpedoes left and in an exchange of gunfire, where I thought I was getting the better of him, until a shell made a direct hit on my control room causing my boat to sink with all hands.

The more I read in the forum of this kind of experience the more I repeat to myself: "Rule #1 - Don't take unneccesary risks".

Leandros · 03-06-14, 09:06 AM

GJO: Cool - I have never experienced anything like this...

Fred

Aras · 03-06-14, 09:35 AM

Interesting. I was expecting the US Warship to attack you after the first torpedo hit the liner.

GJO · 03-06-14, 09:48 AM

I wasn't sure what the warship would do but in similar poor visibility situations I have been able to escape on the surface which is better than submerging and risking depth charges.

Today I have been researching real life situations and there were similar actions where American ships did everything possible to thwart a U Boat attack against a British ship except open fire or drop DCs.

maillemaker · 03-06-14, 11:16 AM

Quote:

The more I read in the forum of this kind of experience the more I repeat to myself: "Rule #1 - Don't take unneccesary risks".

Nah, rule #1 is Stay out of shallow water!

Rule #2 is don't take unnecessary risks.

But what is the fun in that?

Steve

GJO · 03-07-14, 03:31 AM

For anyone who wants to enjoy a similar experience with a combined British/American convoy escorted by an American warship, here is an extract from the course plot that I made at the time:

First contact at grid ET 49 77, date/time: June 11, 1941 1500 hrs; course NNW, speed approx. 6 knots - first visual approx 1515 hours.

Kielhauler1961 · 03-07-14, 04:00 AM

That sounds like an interesting encounter. One question - did the destroyer ever train it's guns on you or were they kept fore 'n' aft?

I imagine the US skipper was furious he didn't have the opportunity to open fire!

KH

TECHNICOLOR · 03-07-14, 04:07 AM

SH3 keeps on surprising me.Good job on the ocean liner.

banryu79 · 03-07-14, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maillemaker

Nah, rule #1 is Stay out of shallow water!

Rule #2 is don't take unnecessary risks.

Steve

True but note however that your rule #1 is really a corollary of your rule #2

Quote:

But what is the fun in that?

Yes, of course, so we should have two different set of rules: one for surviving and coming home, and the other to have great fun

GJO · 03-07-14, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kielhauler1961

That sounds like an interesting encounter. One question - did the destroyer ever train it's guns on you or were they kept fore 'n' aft?

I imagine the US skipper was furious he didn't have the opportunity to open fire!

KH

TBH I didn't notice! I was far too busy keeping in contact with SS Ceramic! What I will say is that the manoeuvres of the American Warship and the baulking by the American vessels were quite incredible and made for some very exciting gameplay. In particular the warship circled and weaved in and out at high speed - it was all very spectacular - I found that when I closed the distance between my boat and the target to about 300 Metres or less the other vessels stopped getting in the way but they were always very close by.

I have no doubt that if one of my torpedoes had missed and hit one of the Americans the warship would have opened fire immediately.

GJO · 03-07-14, 05:17 AM

I have just found this: www.ssceramic.co.uk

Obviously, I found the ship more than a year earlier than the real life sinking by U-515

Kielhauler1961 · 03-07-14, 06:06 AM

The 'undeclared war' between the USN and the U-Boats was one aspect of the worsening relations between USA and the Axis powers.

On 14 June 1941, the US froze all German and Italian assets and on the 16th June all German and Italian consulates were closed and staff ordered to leave the USA by 10th July.

If you had made it back alive, there would have been a fast car waiting to take you to Berlin and report the incident directly to the Fuehrer! He might even have offered you a cucumber sandwich...

At lease you didn't make the political situation any worse. That was Hitler's job!

KH

Paulebaer1979 · 03-07-14, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aras

Interesting. I was expecting the US Warship to attack you after the first torpedo hit the liner.

In my opinion GJO in this situation was allowed to attak all ships of the convoy. Because the ruls of engagement tell us, that an enemy ship is always allowed to attak us and we are always allowed to attak it. If neutral ships are combinied with enemy ships to a convoy, they are all enemy. Neutral ships have to show their neutralilty by showing flags, nautical lights and so on. If they don´t do that and are in convoy with an enemy they are just nice targets.

Every time i spot an enemy ship, i attak (deck gun if possible - otherwile dive for torps) or dive and hide. Running away with high speed is the last way out (if the enemy is slow or water to shallow), because if i get spotted the enemy ship is able to ask for help from the next airbase, anti-sub-group or aircraft-carrier.

GJO · 03-07-14, 09:25 AM

I think that in the game, a neutral warship will not attack unless you have attacked a neutral vessel within the last 24 hours. For this reason I figured that I was safe from attack and that proved correct. I am quite certain that any damage to one of the neutral ships would have brought a decisive response.

03-06-14, 09:06 AM	#3
Leandros Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Stockholm Posts: 676 Downloads: 17 Uploads: 0	GJO: Cool - I have never experienced anything like this... Fred __________________ www.fredleander.com - look in to see my new book on Operation Sea Lion "Saving MacArthur" - a book series on how The Philippines were saved Last edited by Leandros; 03-06-14 at 11:39 AM.

03-06-14, 09:35 AM	#4
Aras Helmsman Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Istanbul, Turkey Posts: 102 Downloads: 48 Uploads: 0	Interesting. I was expecting the US Warship to attack you after the first torpedo hit the liner. __________________ "Though I'm past 240 meters, I'm feeling very still and I think my u-boot knows which way to go ..."

03-06-14, 06:31 AM	#1
GJO Engineer Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: On the Oxford Canal in England Posts: 202 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	GWX can present some serious challenges! On my 11th patrol about 200 miles off the African Coast, South of Freetown, I get a hydrophone contact from a merchant closing at slow speed. Feeling confident (I had already bagged 33,000 tons on this patrol) I plotted the course and set my own course to intercept. Visibility was very poor and I hoped to use this to my advantage. The single contact developed into a small convoy and when the first ship was visible through my periscope I could identify it as a 'Large Merchant' followed closely by a 'Modern Tanker' both ships were unlit but as I set myself on a parallel course for a submerged attack, I could just make out the Stars and Stripes ensign of the first ship. It was May 1941 so this was still a neutral target. As neither ships appeared to be armed, I decided to surface to get a better look. Closing on a parallel course to within 150 Metres of the tanker, I could see that this too was flying the American ensign - I have tried my best to avoid attacking neutral vessels so I put the crew back to cruising stations and was about to turn away when the WO spotted a third ship - this had been hiding behind the tanker and was still too far away for me to get a a decent view of it but it was clearly a lot bigger than the tanker. As I tried to manoeuvre closer to the third vessel a 'Somers' class warship suddenly appeared coming straight toward me at high speed and then turned across my bows forcing me to take evasive action. The warship was also American and did not fire on me. I was now in the middle of four vessels all manoeuvring in a hectic fashion - the tanker was still putting itself between my boat and the larger, as yet unidentified, ship - the warship was darting in and out all over the place and the 'Large Merchant' had turned round and was now coming back towards me - despite all of this, I managed to get close enough to the third ship to identify it as a 'Ceramic' class ocean liner flying a British Red Ensign. Fortunately it wasn't armed so I prepared to attack it on the surface. For almost two hours I struggled to get a clear torpedo shot with the other ships continually protecting the target by placing themselves between it and my boat - visibility remained bad and I had to use a fair bit of guess work and manoeuvring to stay in contact while not running into the other vessels or the erratically circling warship. Eventually (and partly in desperation) I fired a torpedo from the bow when I was directly behind the target at a range of 350 Metres. The torpedo exploded under the target's stern and brought its speed down until it eventually stopped in the water. The other vessels still tried to put themselves between my boat and the target but I managed to get another torpedo shot which exploded amidships. Visibility was still poor and the other ships continued to baulk me. Nevertheless, the liner was now settling in the water and after another ten minutes or so I was able to observe it going down as my crew cheered and with 20,000 tons plus added to my bag! The American warship never fired a shot and I left the scene on the surface with visibility still so poor that they were all soon out of sight. It was an exciting and challenging battle but I didn't live to tell the tale - returning to St Nazaire, I launched an attack on an armed ore carrier just off Cape Finnistere, I should have let it go because I had no torpedoes left and in an exchange of gunfire, where I thought I was getting the better of him, until a shell made a direct hit on my control room causing my boat to sink with all hands. Last edited by GJO; 03-06-14 at 06:51 AM.

03-06-14, 09:48 AM	#5
GJO Engineer Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: On the Oxford Canal in England Posts: 202 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	I wasn't sure what the warship would do but in similar poor visibility situations I have been able to escape on the surface which is better than submerging and risking depth charges. Today I have been researching real life situations and there were similar actions where American ships did everything possible to thwart a U Boat attack against a British ship except open fire or drop DCs.

03-07-14, 03:31 AM	#7
GJO Engineer Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: On the Oxford Canal in England Posts: 202 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	For anyone who wants to enjoy a similar experience with a combined British/American convoy escorted by an American warship, here is an extract from the course plot that I made at the time: First contact at grid ET 49 77, date/time: June 11, 1941 1500 hrs; course NNW, speed approx. 6 knots - first visual approx 1515 hours.

03-07-14, 04:00 AM	#8
Kielhauler1961 中国水兵 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: East of the Firth of Forth Posts: 273 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	That sounds like an interesting encounter. One question - did the destroyer ever train it's guns on you or were they kept fore 'n' aft? I imagine the US skipper was furious he didn't have the opportunity to open fire! KH

03-07-14, 04:07 AM	#9
TECHNICOLOR Sailor man Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Romania,Near the Danube Posts: 49 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0	SH3 keeps on surprising me.Good job on the ocean liner.

03-07-14, 05:17 AM	#12
GJO Engineer Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: On the Oxford Canal in England Posts: 202 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	I have just found this: www.ssceramic.co.uk Obviously, I found the ship more than a year earlier than the real life sinking by U-515

03-07-14, 06:06 AM	#13
Kielhauler1961 中国水兵 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: East of the Firth of Forth Posts: 273 Downloads: 1 Uploads: 0	The 'undeclared war' between the USN and the U-Boats was one aspect of the worsening relations between USA and the Axis powers. On 14 June 1941, the US froze all German and Italian assets and on the 16th June all German and Italian consulates were closed and staff ordered to leave the USA by 10th July. If you had made it back alive, there would have been a fast car waiting to take you to Berlin and report the incident directly to the Fuehrer! He might even have offered you a cucumber sandwich... At lease you didn't make the political situation any worse. That was Hitler's job! KH

03-07-14, 09:25 AM	#15
GJO Engineer Join Date: Nov 2013 Location: On the Oxford Canal in England Posts: 202 Downloads: 40 Uploads: 0	I think that in the game, a neutral warship will not attack unless you have attacked a neutral vessel within the last 24 hours. For this reason I figured that I was safe from attack and that proved correct. I am quite certain that any damage to one of the neutral ships would have brought a decisive response.