Pucker'd me RIGHT up.

[jmurph]

Running some practice runs using the O'Kane method, everything is going great and you guys are a WEALTH of information.

So here I am, all set-up on my 90 degree track to the targets coarse, range is around 3000-3500yd or so and I'm putzing along at 1/3 at periscope and silent running. Too easy ... enemy speed 5kts, heading about 182.

Scope up every 3min to verify my track on him ... all is good.

He crosses the line and i hit the plunger 4 times (shooting to see if where I aim is where they hit)

Torp 1 - 1st mast, 2 - bridge 3 - funnel 4 - 2nd mast.

All torps away, some three minutes later or so, 1 hits where aimed, so does 2 and 4 .... but I noticed there was nothing from 3. I thought dud ... but ...

I goto the attack map and there's this green pecker running circles over my head. Thank GOD I was at periscope depth, I had them set to run around 15ft (enemy keel was 24ft or so.)

So my only question is, no crew member alerted me, and I was non-the-wiser till i checked the attack map. This normal?

TMO 2.5 is amazing.

Cheers and Happy Holidays from Afghanistan!

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by jmurph

So my only question is, no crew member alerted me, and I was non-the-wiser till i checked the attack map. This normal?


Cheers and Happy Holidays from Afghanistan!

If by normal, you mean, do circle runners happen often, then no.

If by normal, you mean, do you not get automatic warnings, then yes.



And, Merry Christmas and Happy New Year from Illinois and Subsim!

[Armistead]

You're lucky it didn't hit you at scope depth, it can happen...I know. If scope depth is 56ft, the height of a sub is about 25-27, so depending on the depth of your torps, not to mention if they run deep....boom.
I've set torps at 10 ft and had circle runners hit right in the bulkhead at scope depth. I've also found if you're running at 1-2 knots, it usually places you right in the path. Seems I have more problem with M18's later war doing circles.

It stinks your sonarman won't call them out, sometimes it helps to take a quick glance at the attack map after you shoot to see where your torps are or dive down another 20 ft.

[merc4ulfate]

I have had a few crazy Ivan fish before. The last one I had I ran a test. I surfaced and let it hit me. It was a dud. I thought purhaps it had not ran long enough to arm. I just wanted to see what happened.

I'm pretty much like that with everything ... Do something and lets see what happens. LOL

[TorpX]

I guess you haven't seen the posts of people who have been sunk by the circle runners. In RL, Tang was lost for sure because of a CR, and I think at least one other sub. Before the war, the USN torpedos (Mk 14, I think) had a anti-circle running mechanism. However, it was eliminated for unknown reasons. It was a very unfortunate decision.

[troopie]

Originally Posted by TorpX

I guess you haven't seen the posts of people who have been sunk by the circle runners. In RL, Tang was lost for sure because of a CR, and I think at least one other sub. Before the war, the USN torpedos (Mk 14, I think) had a anti-circle running mechanism. However, it was eliminated for unknown reasons. It was a very unfortunate decision.

So, do you think IRL the sonarman would have been aware of circle runners? Seems quite possible.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by troopie

So, do you think IRL the sonarman would have been aware of circle runners? Seems quite possible.

For the most part yes, why they would call out "hot, straight and normal". Still in the heat of battle, it could be hard to keep up with everything. As I recall, most circle runners hit subs why running the surface, such as Tang.
The evidence points out that the Wahoo probably got hit by a circle runner as well and was trying to make it home on the surface, but got caught.

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by troopie

So, do you think IRL the sonarman would have been aware of circle runners? Seems quite possible.

Yes, it's possible, but it's not guaranteed. If you launch a spread of torpedos, have a target to track, several escorts to monitor, can you listen to all of them at once? Will you be able to detect that one erratic fish, out of the salvo? The game attack map handles this issue in the usual gamey way, by giving you error-free, best case info every time.

[MarkCt]

Happened to me too. I fired 3 torpedoes at a lone freighter at PD. I was watching for a couple seconds after firing. Every now and then I switch to the attack map to pass the time and this time I noticed one of my torpedoes was circling around to the left. I was shocked as I never thought I would see something like this in the game. I dropped the pariscope and hit crash dive. I can tell you my heart was pounding a little as I watched it come around. All the while I'm saying to myself, go, go, go. Finally it passes right over me and two seconds after that I hear the two hits on the freighter.

I've read two books on the Tang and knew it happened in real life but never thought I would see it here. I run TMO an RSRDC. I think it's one of those little surprises that make this game that much more fun.

[Armistead]

Originally Posted by TorpX

Yes, it's possible, but it's not guaranteed. If you launch a spread of torpedos, have a target to track, several escorts to monitor, can you listen to all of them at once? Will you be able to detect that one erratic fish, out of the salvo? The game attack map handles this issue in the usual gamey way, by giving you error-free, best case info every time.

Great game isn't it.

I'm not sure how they tracked torps with sonar, I assume manual control of the heads, not letting them spin, but I would suspect even if they got it quick, a sub hardly had time. Plus, our subs are rather turbo like the ships.

[twm47099]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Great game isn't it.

I'm not sure how they tracked torps with sonar, I assume manual control of the heads, not letting them spin, but I would suspect even if they got it quick, a sub hardly had time. Plus, our subs are rather turbo like the ships.

In Flucky's book he has his sonar operator track the torpedoes to determine if there are any circle runners. I assume that the sonar operator can tell by the Doppler effect if the torpedo deviates from a straight run. I'm not sure how well the sub could evade if they heard a circle run.

Tom

[pabbi]

The evidence points out that the Wahoo probably got hit by a circle runner as well and was trying to make it home on the surface, but got caught.

Warfish scrapbook

"The Daylight Dash"


I can not agree with you on that matter. If you look at those links you can see on those pics that it was most likely an airial bomb that hit her. The second link was written before the sub wreckage was discovered.

[HertogJan]

Had one go 'BOOM' on me right after "Torpedoe in the water" any guess what that ment to that career

[Red October1984]

I had a torpedo hit me in SH3. It was set ahead of me on a Snake Search Pattern and i sailed right into the path of it while trailing a convoy. This was the look I had on my face.

Started with and then and then...

I don't use those torpedoes anymore...

[TorpX]

Originally Posted by Armistead

Great game isn't it.

I'm not sure how they tracked torps with sonar, I assume manual control of the heads, not letting them spin, but I would suspect even if they got it quick, a sub hardly had time. Plus, our subs are rather turbo like the ships.

Yes, just pointing the hydrophones along the torpedo track. They could track the bearing within the limits of the hydrophones precision, but could only infer the range based on the run time. I would guess, that some would run rough or slow and would make a sound of a different quality, but this would not really correlate with a circle runner. I think it would be easy to miss one CR out of a salvo if you had any distractions. After all, the remaining torps would be emitting noise and give one a false sense of security. It would be a much dicier proposition than just checking the attack map in the game.

I agree also that you wouldn't have much warning. It didn't take that long for a torp to circle around. We know that from the Tang experience.

I assume that the sonar operator can tell by the Doppler effect if the torpedo deviates from a straight run.

No, he would have to be following that torpedo and would notice (maybe?) at some point that it wasn't on the bearing it was expected to be on.




There may have been some incentive to use "straight fire" here. It would be easier to track torpedos on a straight course. "Curved fire" would be changing bearing and so an undesired deviation would be harder to pick up. Also, stern launches would be more difficult to track. I'm not sure what they might have done about this.