no more pullups for female US marines

Skybird · 01-03-14, 07:38 AM

By a German report (LINK ) I learn that now has happened again exactly what nobody cna seriously want when allowing women into combat units and armed forces: that two standards for performance tests and fitness tests get established and the general standard gets lowered in order to still have gender equality.

Reports says that the US marine corps has stopped to demand female recruits physical tests and fitness tests that include pullups, since every second woman failed to achieve even just three pullups.

I'm all for same chances for females in the armed forces, almost all - though not all - branches. But only at this condition: that they pass the very same tests and qualification standards by which their male colleagues have to pass, since years and decades.

Because it is idiotic to assume that possible future enemies such female soldiers have to fight against will, confront them with voluntarily reduced combat strength to agree to more equalised chances between male hostile and female marine. A woman not en par with the physical performance abilities of her male colleagues, becomes a burden to her unit, and can even pout her whole unit at risk if her buddies have to take risks to compensate for her strength deficits. Thats starts with carrying stuff, and ends with many situation you can imagine when engaged under fire. As we would say in German, literally translating a phrase: a female soldiers nevertheless must be able to stand her man.

Political correctness continues with its corrosive endavours.

Not that the news is surprising, or shocking. It's the time we live in. The Chinese have this condemning wish for their enemies: "May you live in interesting times". Seen that way, we are extremely well-entertained.

Some days ago they had another report showing that internal research showed that rape of females in the Us armed forces is far more spread and happens far more often than officially admitted and shown by (cleaned) official numbers.

My policy: women are welcome - if they do not gain attention by showing deficits in physical and technical performance levels and if their inclusion in units and crews does not require more logistical reorganisation than can be justified, by all sane standards of reason, compared to the in principle: meaningless effect. If a soldier does the same job as well as his colleagues, it does not matter whether he/she is a boy or a girl. To have women in the armed forces for the mere purpose of being able to say that one has women in the armed forces, thus is absolutely pointless an argument. Gender means nothing here. Physical fitness and technical competence is what decides this for me.

Onkel Neal · 01-03-14, 08:56 AM

Yeah, we have to sacrifice our grasp on the realities of life to make everyone feel better. God help us if we ever get into another major ground war with an able opponent.

Sailor Steve · 01-03-14, 12:25 PM

I have to completely agree. As soon as you need a double standard, all the standards are lowered.

Admiral Halsey · 01-03-14, 12:35 PM

I don't mind sending woman into combat but if they can't do what the normal soldier can do then they need to stay far away from the front lines.

Wolferz · 01-03-14, 01:11 PM

If the girls want to fight on the front lines, then they should be held to the same standards as their male peers. There are some women who can do it but not many. Adjusting the standards for the sake of political correctness is wrong on all counts and a waste of resources.

Admiral Halsey · 01-03-14, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolferz

If the girls want to fight on the front lines, then they should be held to the same standards as their male peers. There are some women who can do it but not many. Adjusting the standards for the sake of political correctness is wrong on all counts and a waste of resources.

Exactly. Sending those who can't fight properly to the front lines is murder.

u crank · 01-03-14, 01:28 PM

I personally believe that very few people who join the military, male or female want to be in a war. Regardless of what they may say. Every effort should be made to convince female enlistees that a combat infantry role would be a mistake in most cases. There are many other trades in the military where gender would not be a factor. Of course that would not be politically correct. And there is your problem.

Schroeder · 01-03-14, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by u crank

Of course that would not be politically correct. And there is your problem.

Don't worry, the enemy will be completely politically correct and shoot them regardless of gender if they can't climb over a wall in full combat gear fast enough to take cover...

August · 01-03-14, 04:52 PM

It always seems to happen this way. Advocates demand equal access promising that standards won't be lowered, then standards are lowered to accommodate equal access.

Stealhead · 01-03-14, 05:38 PM

It says in an AP article that the failures are occurring with Females at boot camp not the active duty female Marines.

This seems to reflect more a poor general standard of physical fitness of young American women in general.I mean three pull ups any able bodied young person should be able to perform at least 3 pull ups.I can do that and I am 37 heck I meet the "perfect" male pullup standard which is 20 of course I'll be a bit tired after words but still.

http://news.yahoo.com/marines-delay-...-politics.html

P.S. I bet that the 7th one in the top photo aced the pullups no troubles.

P.S.S. Have women become weaker over time or something? Plenty of female sniper on the Soviet side in WWII and plenty of female fighters in Haganah plenty of female fighters in the VC as well.

P.S.S. The IDF has all female combat units

01-03-14, 05:46 PM

why is this story backwards?

Onkel Neal · 01-03-14, 05:47 PM

On one hand, I understand that female bodies are different than male, so it's pretty unfair to compare. But on the other hand, women can do pullups, if they are fit enough. For example: http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...l-ups.cnn.html

Hell, our next war will be fought 100% with drones, tens of thousands hopefully, so maybe it really doesn't matter?

Stealhead · 01-03-14, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neal Stevens

Hell, our next war will be fought 100% with drones, tens of thousands hopefully, so maybe it really doesn't matter?

True not much strength is needed to push a button.

Oberon · 01-03-14, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

True not much strength is needed to push a button.

I can't resist:

Stealhead · 01-03-14, 07:58 PM

In some cases this response is very true Vasquez's response.

I thought she was pretty hot when I was 10 or 11 heck I still do.Kind of like my wife I never worry about her because anyone that ever made the mistake of messing with her would be sorry and not because of anything I might do but do to her actions.Not to say that my wife is not feminine she just is no push over.

Of course there plenty of non-combat jobs in the military where some physical ability is required and not everyone really hacks it just like with any other job.

01-03-14, 07:38 AM	#1
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,612 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	no more pullups for female US marines By a German report (LINK ) I learn that now has happened again exactly what nobody cna seriously want when allowing women into combat units and armed forces: that two standards for performance tests and fitness tests get established and the general standard gets lowered in order to still have gender equality. Reports says that the US marine corps has stopped to demand female recruits physical tests and fitness tests that include pullups, since every second woman failed to achieve even just three pullups. I'm all for same chances for females in the armed forces, almost all - though not all - branches. But only at this condition: that they pass the very same tests and qualification standards by which their male colleagues have to pass, since years and decades. Because it is idiotic to assume that possible future enemies such female soldiers have to fight against will, confront them with voluntarily reduced combat strength to agree to more equalised chances between male hostile and female marine. A woman not en par with the physical performance abilities of her male colleagues, becomes a burden to her unit, and can even pout her whole unit at risk if her buddies have to take risks to compensate for her strength deficits. Thats starts with carrying stuff, and ends with many situation you can imagine when engaged under fire. As we would say in German, literally translating a phrase: a female soldiers nevertheless must be able to stand her man. Political correctness continues with its corrosive endavours. Not that the news is surprising, or shocking. It's the time we live in. The Chinese have this condemning wish for their enemies: "May you live in interesting times". Seen that way, we are extremely well-entertained. Some days ago they had another report showing that internal research showed that rape of females in the Us armed forces is far more spread and happens far more often than officially admitted and shown by (cleaned) official numbers. My policy: women are welcome - if they do not gain attention by showing deficits in physical and technical performance levels and if their inclusion in units and crews does not require more logistical reorganisation than can be justified, by all sane standards of reason, compared to the in principle: meaningless effect. If a soldier does the same job as well as his colleagues, it does not matter whether he/she is a boy or a girl. To have women in the armed forces for the mere purpose of being able to say that one has women in the armed forces, thus is absolutely pointless an argument. Gender means nothing here. Physical fitness and technical competence is what decides this for me. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert.

01-03-14, 08:56 AM	#2
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,383 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	Yeah, we have to sacrifice our grasp on the realities of life to make everyone feel better. God help us if we ever get into another major ground war with an able opponent. __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

01-03-14, 12:25 PM	#3
Sailor Steve Eternal Patrol Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: High in the mountains of Utah Posts: 50,369 Downloads: 745 Uploads: 249	I have to completely agree. As soon as you need a double standard, all the standards are lowered. __________________ “Never do anything you can't take back.” —Rocky Russo

01-03-14, 01:11 PM	#5
Wolferz Navy Seal Join Date: May 2007 Location: On a mighty quest for the Stick of Truth Posts: 5,963 Downloads: 52 Uploads: 0	If the girls want to fight on the front lines, then they should be held to the same standards as their male peers. There are some women who can do it but not many. Adjusting the standards for the sake of political correctness is wrong on all counts and a waste of resources. __________________ Tomorrow never comes

01-03-14, 01:28 PM	#7
u crank Old enough to know better Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Prince Edward Island Posts: 11,744 Downloads: 136 Uploads: 0	I personally believe that very few people who join the military, male or female want to be in a war. Regardless of what they may say. Every effort should be made to convince female enlistees that a combat infantry role would be a mistake in most cases. There are many other trades in the military where gender would not be a factor. Of course that would not be politically correct. And there is your problem. __________________ “Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” ― Arthur C. Clarke

01-03-14, 12:35 PM	#4
Admiral Halsey Best Admiral in the USN Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: USS Enterprise (CV-6) Posts: 1,740 Downloads: 317 Uploads: 0	I don't mind sending woman into combat but if they can't do what the normal soldier can do then they need to stay far away from the front lines.

01-03-14, 04:52 PM	#9
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	It always seems to happen this way. Advocates demand equal access promising that standards won't be lowered, then standards are lowered to accommodate equal access. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

01-03-14, 05:38 PM	#10
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	It says in an AP article that the failures are occurring with Females at boot camp not the active duty female Marines. This seems to reflect more a poor general standard of physical fitness of young American women in general.I mean three pull ups any able bodied young person should be able to perform at least 3 pull ups.I can do that and I am 37 heck I meet the "perfect" male pullup standard which is 20 of course I'll be a bit tired after words but still. http://news.yahoo.com/marines-delay-...-politics.html P.S. I bet that the 7th one in the top photo aced the pullups no troubles. P.S.S. Have women become weaker over time or something? Plenty of female sniper on the Soviet side in WWII and plenty of female fighters in Haganah plenty of female fighters in the VC as well. P.S.S. The IDF has all female combat units

01-03-14, 05:46 PM	#11
Tribesman Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	why is this story backwards?

01-03-14, 05:47 PM	#12
Onkel Neal Born to Run Silent Join Date: Jan 1997 Location: Cougar Trap, Texas Posts: 21,383 Downloads: 541 Uploads: 224	On one hand, I understand that female bodies are different than male, so it's pretty unfair to compare. But on the other hand, women can do pullups, if they are fit enough. For example: http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/vi...l-ups.cnn.html Hell, our next war will be fought 100% with drones, tens of thousands hopefully, so maybe it really doesn't matter? __________________ SUBSIM - 26 Years on the Web

01-03-14, 07:58 PM	#15
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	In some cases this response is very true Vasquez's response. I thought she was pretty hot when I was 10 or 11 heck I still do.Kind of like my wife I never worry about her because anyone that ever made the mistake of messing with her would be sorry and not because of anything I might do but do to her actions.Not to say that my wife is not feminine she just is no push over. Of course there plenty of non-combat jobs in the military where some physical ability is required and not everyone really hacks it just like with any other job. Last edited by Stealhead; 01-03-14 at 08:13 PM.