Secular part of Turkey suffery another defeat by hands of the AKP regime

[Skybird]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-914924.html

I followed that case since years. Hilarious from beginning on, and obviously staged. The goal was always to take the military and its constitutional role as a final defender of a secular state order out of the power equation. Erdoghan also has eroded the military by turning many high ranking officers into pensioneers, and pumpin plenty of AKP-loyal folloowers up the ranks, to turn the military around from within.

And the EU assisted him as best as it could. Cannot say who of the two pisses me more.

[Jimbuna]

From the BBC

Turkey Ergenekon case: Ex-army chief Basbug gets life:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23571739

[Catfish]

It seems the islamists in Turkey and the ruling party have learned, from what happens in Egypt
In Egypt: the military to arrest a muslim president, and steer the country free from the Shariah ..

[August]

Originally Posted by Catfish

It seems the islamists in Turkey and the ruling party have learned, from what happens in Egypt
In Egypt: the military to arrest a muslim president, and steer the country free from the Shariah ..

The arrests came first so I'd say it was the other way around. The Egyptian military have learned from what happened to their contemporaries in Turkey.

[Skybird]

The Egyptian military has a much longer tradition than the Turkish one in seeing itself as the last defence of the secular state against religious militans and devout Islam (not that the non-Muslim minorities really very free and equal before: they never have been). Like min Turkey the military leaders abused that role often to establish their own privileged economic status and to build a parallel business structure working just for their pockets.

However, I think that is the lesser of the two evils. Obama must be more hopeless a case than I imagined so far that he really wants the military to pull back and have the Islamists reinstalled.

The Bush administration knew nothing about the ME, and Islam. The Obama administration imo is not one bit more educated. In a way it is even more naive.

And the EU, well, I think I can save myself from mentioning them. Plenty of love for them from the bottom of my heart, as usual.

If military coups and military rule were the answer to the growth of fundamentalist nuts then Pakistan wouldn't be such a dangerous prospect.
Blindness is leading some people to support a "cure" for the problem which is really a major cause of the problem.

[Skybird]

Originally Posted by Skybird

The Egyptian military has a much longer tradition than the Turkish one in seeing itself as the last defence of the secular state against religious militans and devout Islam (not that the non-Muslim minorities really very free and equal before: they never have been). Like min Turkey the military leaders abused that role often to establish their own privileged economic status and to build a parallel business structure working just for their pockets.

However, I think that is the lesser of the two evils. Obama must be more hopeless a case than I imagined so far that he really wants the military to pull back and have the Islamists reinstalled.

The Bush administration knew nothing about the ME, and Islam. The Obama administration imo is not one bit more educated. In a way it is even more naive.

And the EU, well, I think I can save myself from mentioning them. Plenty of love for them from the bottom of my heart, as usual.

Adding to that, one must note that not just Obama & gang act stupidly, Republican senators McCain and Graham have called the Egyptian event a coup and expressed their solidarity with the fundamentalists. Calling it a coup could lead to an end of military aid to Egypt. They directly confront Kerry who avoided or refused to call it a coup.

McCain'S U-turn is remarkable. In 2011, in an interview with Der Spiegel he warned to allow the fundamentalists into government, and said exactly the opposite of what he says today:

SPIEGEL: Stehen Sie der Muslimbruderschaft nicht zu kritisch gegenüber?

McCain: Die Muslimbruderschaft ist eine radikale Gruppe, der es in erster Linie darum geht, die Scharia anzuwenden. Sie ist durch und durch antidemokratisch, vor allem in Bezug auf die Rechte von Frauen. Sie arbeitet mit Terroristen zusammen, weshalb sie von der Übergangsregierung ausgeschlossen werden sollte.

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-76764128.html

Translation:

Spiegel: Aren't you too critical towards the Muslim Brotherhood?

McCain: The MB is a radical group that before anything else wants to implement the Sharia. It is anti-democratic through and through, especially regarding women's rights. It cooperates with terrorists, and for that reason should be excluded from the transitory government.


Well, Mr. McCain. Gotten a bit senile lately, or what?

Where to start with that rubbish?

Republican senators McCain and Graham have called the Egyptian event a coup and expressed their solidarity with the fundamentalists.

It is a coup, it is the textbook definition of a coup, there is no other way to describe it.
No one expressed solidarity with fundamentalists, they spoke of respecting democracy.
"The people who are in charge were not elected. The people who were elected are in jail. The status quo is not acceptable."

Calling it a coup could lead to an end of military aid to Egypt. They directly confront Kerry who avoided or refused to call it a coup.

The law is the law, if the US government doesn't like their law they can write a new one.
The State dept was again pushed at its press conference today to define the events in Egypt, it flatly refused to put any name to it because coup is the only name for it.
Or as Psaki put it..."We have determined that we do not have to make a determination"

McCain'S U-turn is remarkable. In 2011, in an interview with Der Spiegel he warned to allow the fundamentalists into government, and said exactly the opposite of what he says today:

No U-turn at all, he was speaking then of the transitory government.
Interestingly Egypts military recently reported that it was giving the MB places in the new proposed transitory government.

As a side note the deputy Sec. of State was also in Egypt, he had meetings with the MB yesterday about the restoration of elected government to replace the military dictatorship.
Maybe he too is as "senile" as Sky thinks McCain and Lindsey are

[Skybird]

Sultan Erdoghan I. used the opportunity of the end of Ramadan to demand that Turkish women must give birth to at least three children, "to support the Turkish nation".

Livestock breeding - fully in accordance with Islamic and Hitler's doctrine. The march must move forward! New soldiers for the Führer/Prophet!

Protest groups in Turkey are fuming. They talk of women's rights and dignity.

I talk of demographic warfare.

[Simmy]

Things are changing so fast in this crazy world no one can keep up with it.
Your allies today maybe out of power tomorrow.
Everyone is struggling to keep their head above water.

Livestock breeding - fully in accordance with Islamic and Hitler's doctrine. The march must move forward! New soldiers for the Führer/Prophet!

Its that feudal utopia you dream of Skybird, where the appointed decide who can breed and how much