TMO - duds and duds and more duds!!

Ray. · 01-05-12, 04:13 AM

Hey guys,
so i managed to get the expansion and install TMO2.5 (got rid of sh5!),
anyway, first mission and I am face to face with a small convoy :2 destroyers and merchant maru. So, I got the sub at the perfect position, set up my solution, and fired 4 toprs from an approximate distance 2000+yards and down I go!

Happily waiting for my crew guy to report torpedo impact!! right?
and so here we go:

Crew Guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (what the hell, i have another 3

)
Crew Guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (Hmm, unlucky!

)
Crew guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (What in the blue hell????????

)
Crew guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (For the love of god!!!!!!!!!

)

Come on!!!!!!!!! all four??????????????? hahahaha

Floyd · 01-05-12, 04:43 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo

Quote:

Dan Daspit (in Tinosa) carefully documented his efforts to sink 19,000 ton whale factory ship Tonan Maru III on 24 July 1943. He fired four torpedoes from 4,000 yd (3,700 m); two hit, stopping the target dead in the water. Daspit immediately fired another two; these hit as well. With no enemy anti-submarine combatants in sight, Daspit then took time to carefully maneuver into a textbook firing position, 875 yd (800 m) square off the target's beam, where he fired nine more Mark 14s and observed all with his periscope (despite the Japanese firing at it). All were duds.Daspit, suspicious by now he was working with a faulty production run of Mark 14s, saved his last remaining torpedo to be analyzed by experts back at base. Nothing out of the ordinary was found.

Do not fire from a "perfect" position.

Ray. · 01-05-12, 07:01 AM

really??
where should i fire from!?

How fast can i replace this "plague" !

Fish40 · 01-05-12, 08:33 AM

U.S. torpedoes were plagued with problems early on in the war. Both the exploder and depth keeping mechanism were faulty. Your best bet early war, is to set the torpedo depth as shallow as possible, set the torpedo speed to slow, and try to fire at an angle other than 90 degrees.

mido · 01-05-12, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray.

Hey guys,
so i managed to get the expansion and install TMO2.5 (got rid of sh5!),
anyway, first mission and I am face to face with a small convoy :2 destroyers and merchant maru. So, I got the sub at the perfect position, set up my solution, and fired 4 toprs from an approximate distance 2000+yards and down I go!

Happily waiting for my crew guy to report torpedo impact!! right?
and so here we go:

Crew Guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (what the hell, i have another 3

)
Crew Guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (Hmm, unlucky!

)
Crew guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (What in the blue hell????????

)
Crew guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (For the love of god!!!!!!!!!

)

Come on!!!!!!!!! all four??????????????? hahahaha

I was complaining about the same thing, read this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=190928

Following some good piece of advise given here fixed my problems. By the end of '43 everything is "cool".

Ray. · 01-05-12, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mido

I was complaining about the same thing, read this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=190928

Following some good piece of advise given here fixed my problems. By the end of '43 everything is "cool".

oh boy, this is going to be fun

iam early 41 patrol

haha

will try with all tips given!

Sailor Steve · 01-05-12, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray.

really??
where should i fire from!?

How fast can i replace this "plague" !

On top of the magnetic pistol and depth-keeping problems they discovered that if the impact pistol struck from a perfect 90-degree angle it had a good chance of crushing the firing pin and not exploding. Striking at a technically "worse" angle made the torpedo explode. Surprisingly the Germans had the opposite problem - impact-set torpedoes would only explode at a 90-degree angle.

Ducimus · 01-05-12, 12:17 PM

Duci's Weather rock for Torpedo firing

If sea is windy, use impact. Getting to the target is half the problem.
If sea is calm, use magnetic. Getting to the target isn't the problem.

Stoli151 · 01-05-12, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ducimus

Duci's Weather rock for Torpedo firing

If sea is windy, use impact. Getting to the target is half the problem.
If sea is calm, use magnetic. Getting to the target isn't the problem.

I used this advice in early 42 and get quite a bit of my torpedoes to detonate along with setting depth at zero and use low speed when possible. Since it is his mod he would know. The only problem I have now is that once they do detonate the DD's know I am there and getting away from them is a whole other issue for me.

Ducimus · 01-05-12, 01:14 PM

The truth is, how failures work in game is horribly flawed. I didn't realize this until after i had experimented with it for quite a bit.

As you know the game has two detonation pistols.
1. Magnetic
2. Impact.

The flaw is this in terms of tweaking dud rates as a modder:

Impact pistols:
Dud rates can be tweaked, but not premature rates. which is correct, with no magnetic influence, wave actions won't cause a premature detonation.

Magnetic pistols:
Now here's the kick in the teeth. Magnetic pistol can detionate via both a solid hit against a hull, or magnetic influence. You can tweak premature rates, but you cannot tweak impact dud rates. Dud rates for impact hits while using the magnetic pistol seems to be this hard coded value somewhere that is abysmally low.

So in sum you can:
- tweak an impact pistol to dud all you like.
- tweak a magnetic pistol to premature all you like.

But you can not:
- Tweak an impact pistol to premature
- Tweak a magnetic pistol to dud.

Now go back, and reread my Indian weather rock on torpedo firing. lol

peabody · 01-05-12, 02:16 PM

Ducimus · 01-05-12, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peabody

Nice!

kstanb · 01-05-12, 03:01 PM

What about using Mark 10 (S boat)

are they completely reliable in TMO?

Ray. · 01-05-12, 05:22 PM

I restarted patrol, and this time used magnetic and shallow as advised. fired 4 one missed 3 detonated

down she goes!

now, getting away from those DDs is another trick..hahah..
jesus, I am at almost 450ft , thats the max for this sub, and they still ping me(silent & 1/3)..hmm..I thought in 41s they couldnt ping bellow 300-350ft...back to reading i guess..

CCIP · 01-05-12, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kstanb

What about using Mark 10 (S boat)

are they completely reliable in TMO?

Looking at the files, yes, they are pretty reliable. Not completely, but the failure chance for the impact trigger is only 1% (when you have it at proper angle) and the maximum depth keeping error is only 3ft.

AFAIK the real mk 10s had pretty serious depth keeping and gyro problems at the start of the war, though their pistols were pretty good.

01-05-12, 04:13 AM	#1
Ray. Swabbie Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 13 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	TMO - duds and duds and more duds!! Hey guys, so i managed to get the expansion and install TMO2.5 (got rid of sh5!), anyway, first mission and I am face to face with a small convoy :2 destroyers and merchant maru. So, I got the sub at the perfect position, set up my solution, and fired 4 toprs from an approximate distance 2000+yards and down I go! Happily waiting for my crew guy to report torpedo impact!! right? and so here we go: Crew Guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (what the hell, i have another 3) Crew Guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (Hmm, unlucky!) Crew guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (What in the blue hell????????) Crew guy: Torpedo is a dud sir! (For the love of god!!!!!!!!!) Come on!!!!!!!!! all four??????????????? hahahaha

01-05-12, 02:16 PM	#11
peabody Admiral Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: New York State, USA Posts: 2,390 Downloads: 126 Uploads: 7	__________________ System Spec: Gigabyte GA-965P-DS3, PentiumD Dual Core Presler 945 3.4Ghz, Gigabyte Geforce 7600GS, 2-1GB Corsair XMS2 800Mhz in Dual Channel, 2-WD 250 SATA 3Gb/s, Onboard Realtek HD 7.1 Audio, DVD ROM, DVD burner, Hiper 580 Watt Power supply, WinXP SP2.

01-05-12, 07:01 AM	#3
Ray. Swabbie Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 13 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	really?? where should i fire from!? How fast can i replace this "plague" !

01-05-12, 08:33 AM	#4
Fish40 The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yonkers, NY U.S.A. Posts: 1,507 Downloads: 154 Uploads: 0	U.S. torpedoes were plagued with problems early on in the war. Both the exploder and depth keeping mechanism were faulty. Your best bet early war, is to set the torpedo depth as shallow as possible, set the torpedo speed to slow, and try to fire at an angle other than 90 degrees.

01-05-12, 12:17 PM	#8
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	Duci's Weather rock for Torpedo firing If sea is windy, use impact. Getting to the target is half the problem. If sea is calm, use magnetic. Getting to the target isn't the problem.

01-05-12, 01:14 PM	#10
Ducimus Rear Admiral Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,987 Downloads: 67 Uploads: 2	The truth is, how failures work in game is horribly flawed. I didn't realize this until after i had experimented with it for quite a bit. As you know the game has two detonation pistols. 1. Magnetic 2. Impact. The flaw is this in terms of tweaking dud rates as a modder: Impact pistols: Dud rates can be tweaked, but not premature rates. which is correct, with no magnetic influence, wave actions won't cause a premature detonation. Magnetic pistols: Now here's the kick in the teeth. Magnetic pistol can detionate via both a solid hit against a hull, or magnetic influence. You can tweak premature rates, but you cannot tweak impact dud rates. Dud rates for impact hits while using the magnetic pistol seems to be this hard coded value somewhere that is abysmally low. So in sum you can: - tweak an impact pistol to dud all you like. - tweak a magnetic pistol to premature all you like. But you can not: - Tweak an impact pistol to premature - Tweak a magnetic pistol to dud. Now go back, and reread my Indian weather rock on torpedo firing. lol

01-05-12, 03:01 PM	#13
kstanb Sparky Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 153 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 0	What about using Mark 10 (S boat) are they completely reliable in TMO?

01-05-12, 05:22 PM	#14
Ray. Swabbie Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 13 Downloads: 15 Uploads: 0	I restarted patrol, and this time used magnetic and shallow as advised. fired 4 one missed 3 detonated down she goes! now, getting away from those DDs is another trick..hahah.. jesus, I am at almost 450ft , thats the max for this sub, and they still ping me(silent & 1/3)..hmm..I thought in 41s they couldnt ping bellow 300-350ft...back to reading i guess..