I even saw a mermaid once...(Hunt for Red October)

[jason taylor]

Working in such a mysterious environment sounds like something someone could think spooky. Do submariners have any interesting legends and superstitions?

[LuftWolf]

I think they're mostly about NQ's, COB's, and cooks...

[shift-E]

as a surface sailor, not a submariner, I can't speak for the bubblehead community; but based upon my experience watching submarine *FILMS* i've always wondered why there ISN'T a superstition about showing your buddies a picture of your girlfriend. That's rule #1 of sub movies: the guy who shows the picture of his girlfriend is going to die.

Rule 2, by the way, is that the captain will always order a course toward an inbound torpedo, to which the Nub will always express disbelief, and the salty guy beside him will explain that "it's smart, because the torpedo needs xyz yards to arm."

and then of course there's Rule 3 -- somebody's gonna have to make the decision to lock living a few crewmembers in a flooding compartment for the overall survival of the boat. And boy it'll be hard to execute that order, but (sniff), they'll do it.

Rule 4: (stop me, please) - at the beginning, the XO and CO hate each other; but in light of all they went through together, by the end of the movie, each has developed a profound respect for the other that knows know bounds ... unless, of course, either of them showed anybody a picture of their girlfriend, in which case, refer to Rule 1.

Rule 5 actually involves the audience. If you're watching a sub movie with a real sub jock, he must interject at least every 30 seconds "that's not how it works" or "that's not how we'd do it" or "that's just like my [COB/XO/CO]!!"

[shift-E]

... and as far as legends go, I suppose that the sea stories about "Batman" and "the guy who's wife sent him cookies and he shared them with the crew" have found their way underwater as well ...

[letterboy1]

Originally Posted by shift-E

Rule 2, by the way, is that the captain will always order a course toward an inbound torpedo, to which the Nub will always express disbelief, and the salty guy beside him will explain that "it's smart, because the torpedo needs xyz yards to arm."[COB/XO/CO]!!"

Hunt for Red October was funny with this one in that Bart Mancuso initially admonished Ramius for turning into the torpedo. After the weapon impacted without detonating, it was as if Mancuso suddenly remembered about "combat tactics."

[jason taylor]

Don't forget, fake oil slicks mixed with debris always fool pursuers. Especially if someone got killed during the previous battering-then they can stuff his body into a torpedo tube and shoot it out. The pursuer NEVER hears the sound of the torpedo tube out of which they shot him. Nor does he wonder why there is only one body.

Yeah well, Shift-e (what does that do, by the way? I'm too scared to try...) is describing Crimson Tide perfectly. Though, as it goes, I think Crimson Tide is pretty unique as a sub movie goes.

Though ease up on the Clancy and Crimson Tide bashing...I'm a big fan of both.

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

Yeah well, Shift-e (what does that do, by the way? I'm too scared to try...) is describing Crimson Tide perfectly. Though, as it goes, I think Crimson Tide is pretty unique as a sub movie goes.

Though ease up on the Clancy and Crimson Tide bashing...I'm a big fan of both.

_____________________________________
Actually part of enjoying a movie is making fun of it-even the best sometimes.

[Nexus7]

My preferred movie is without any doubt K-19. At least in the movie (I didn't yet read the books) you don't see:

1. People changing theyr mind three times (Weps - Crimson Tide)
2. Ensigns refuse orders several times without consequences (Crimson Tide)
3. A retarded Commander who doesn't know the basics of fire control and generally has no clue (THFRO)
4. Commanders that disregard obvious security procedures (Crimson Tide, and the other movie with the nuclear explosion in Pyonyang)
7. Sub evading an attack driving trought scrapped ships... (Pyonyang movie)
8. CIA Analyst knowing a russian commander better than is own mates (THFRO)
X. There are other secundary things i don't remember right now


Regarding your question, about superstition, in K-19 there's
1. the scene where the Champagne bottle doesnt crunch on the hull. "this ship is cursed".
2. the guy that writes a letter to his GF in case he would die
3. "Religious signs 'r forbidden aboard"

Weps changing his mind 3 times? Like that's never happened before. You'd be in two minds as well, if you had to decide to launch nukes with an uncompleted flash message, I'd bet.

What about Indiana Jones...err sorry...Harrison Ford with that silly Russian accent? Or the fact that it's the most boring film ever...NOTHING HAPPENS!!! Except for radiation poisoning.

K19 got 6.5 votes in IMDB.com. At least Crimson Tide got 7.1 (which is way too low).

And look at the long list of "goofs" for K-19:

* Continuity: Once K-19 has reached crush depth, the observation tower begins to fold in from the pressure. The numbers "249" are noticeably crumpled, but very shortly thereafter the tower is fine and stays like that the rest of the film (although it might be argued that the skin of a sub will pop back out, as long as there is no structural damage, once excess pressure is removed).

* Continuity: When the submarine is leaving the berth, and the two captains are on the tower, the nearby flag blows away from them in the close-up shots. In the long shots, the flag (and other smoke) blows the other direction.

* Continuity: Close-ups on some control consoles show new paint over layers that have been severely chipped, not something one would find on a new boat.

* Continuity: At the beginning of the movie, Vostrikov wears his wedding ring on his left hand. In later shots it is on his right hand as is customary with Russians.

* Boom mike visible: In the graveyard scene, near the end of the film, the boom mike can be seen reflected in one of the character's hats.

* Continuity: When the base physician boards the submarine at the base, he is wearing an enlisted uniform (black chin strap on hat). Later, when Captain Alexei Vostrikov is having a conversation with the doctor, he says he to pull himself together because is a officer in the Soviet Navy.

* Continuity: When the K-19 is preparing to leave her berth for the first time, the order "single up all lines" is given. This order means that one set of lines is removed, but the boat should remain secured to her berth with a 'single' set of lines. When the order is given, the crew removes both sets of lines, and the K-19 departs.

* Anachronisms: When Radtchenko kisses his girlfriend goodbye he tries to catch what appears to be a Soviet GAZ-66 4x4 utility truck. The production of GAZ-66 did not start until 1966, 5 years after the events of the movie take place.

* Anachronisms: The US Navy helicopter flying around the K-19 is a Sikorsky S-58T, which had its first flight on 19 August 1970, about 9 years after the incident had taken place.

* Audio/visual unsynchronized: The sound the camera makes when the group shot of the crew is taken on the ice is that of a fixed shutter, but the camera being used (either a Leica or a Russian copy) would have had a focal-plane shutter.

* Revealing mistakes: In the "fuel fire" on board, the gas jets actually fueling the fire can clearly be seen at the bottom of the frame.

* Anachronisms: The film shown by the political officer shows the Civil Rights abuses committed in Birmingham in 1964, four year after the K-19 was launched.

* Errors made by characters (possibly deliberate errors by the filmmakers): The foil that one of the people is given at the start would not protect his 'private parts' from gamma rays. He would need a thick lump of lead to do that.

Crimson Tide was nominated for 3 oscars, K-19 was nominated for 2 PFS (Political Film Society) awards.

If I was on K-19 I'd volunteer to fix the reactor...anything to get out of that boring movie.

[Henson]

The most accurate submarine movie ever made was Down Periscope.

I have served with every one of those guys.

[zephyr]

With a few friends on Diesel subs.., I know for them, the only sub movie on board...., and played pretty much steady (with the exception of the 'occasional' viewing of porn) is "Das Boot"

I know it is not modern sub stuff.., but a great movie IMHO

[Nexus7]

Originally Posted by Kurushio

Weps changing his mind 3 times? Like that's never happened before. You'd be in two minds as well, if you had to decide to launch nukes with an uncompleted flash message, I'd bet.

What about Indiana Jones...err sorry...Harrison Ford with that silly Russian accent? Or the fact that it's the most boring film ever...NOTHING HAPPENS!!! Except for radiation poisoning.

K19 got 6.5 votes in IMDB.com. At least Crimson Tide got 7.1 (which is way too low).

And look at the long list of "goofs" for K-19:

Crimson Tide was nominated for 3 oscars, K-19 was nominated for 2 PFS (Political Film Society) awards.

If I was on K-19 I'd volunteer to fix the reactor...anything to get out of that boring movie.

Interesting list of mistakes, didn't notice any of those

None the less I watched K-19 around 15 times (more will follow), Crimsod tide 1.5 times, THFRO around 2 or 3 times.
And an officer changing his mind 3-4 times (launch? not launch?) sorry just looks ridicolous to me I think those things go by fixed procedures like probably almost anything aboard a nuke... not much room for your own opinion.
I am an amateur what concerns submarines, but I wouldn't be surprised if the bubbleheads weren't the most professional guys in the navy, or maybe in the whole military.

About supersitions i imagine they can be dangerous aboard a nuke.

[Nexus7]

Ah, Kurushio, in case you didnt look... here the goofs for THFRO and Crimson Tide

THFRO

• Anachronisms: The Soviet Typhoon fleet numbered six submarines only after 1989. Sonarman Jones has six (besides Red October) listed in his acoustic logs, in 1984.
• Continuity: Captain Borodin unbuttons his top button twice after Ramius informs the officers of his plans to defect.
• Continuity: When Ryan is being put on the Dallas by the helicopter, it is raining outside. But when you look through the windscreen of the helicopter from the inside, the windshield wipers are not moving.
• Crew or equipment visible: Part of the studio set, a stage light, and a crew member walking on pavement are all reflected in the visor of the helicopter crew member.
• Revealing mistakes: When Jack Ryan is dragged into the Dallas after almost drowning, one of the crewman bends a valve when laying Jack on the floor.
• Incorrectly regarded as goofs: A Soviet crewman is shown doing a Roman Catholic rather than a Russian Orthodox cross. This is entirely possible: some parts of the USSR, such as Ramius' home republic of Lithuania, were heavily Roman Catholic.
• Incorrectly regarded as goofs: When Jack Ryan boards the Red October for the first time, Ramius asks him (in Russian), "So you speak Russian?" Ryan answers "nemnoga" (Russian for "a little"), but this sounds like "Mnogo" (a lot).
• Factual errors: The admiral says that it will be dawn in a couple of hours, but the portholes in his stateroom are not covered. Darkened ship procedures mandate that all portholes be closed between sunset and sunrise. Additional rules apply for doors with outside access.
• Anachronisms: The story takes place in 1984, yet on a table in Ryan's apartment in London is a 1987 issue of "Proceedings".
• Factual errors: FFG 51 (USS Gary) homeported in Yokosuka, identifies herself as "Reuben James" (FFG 57), which is homeported in Pearl Harbor. Further, Reuben James was not commissioned until two years after the incident took place. (This is because both ships were used in filming.)
• Incorrectly regarded as goofs: While the "brother" for Stanley the teddy bear gets more screen time, Stanley is seen briefly before Ryan leaves home. Therefore, it's correct for Stanley to be credited as himself, but the second bear is uncredited.
• Anachronisms: Envelope with the letter from Ramius to Padorin is international type of envelope, while in 1984 in Russia were used envelopes of 160mm by 115 mm size.
• Continuity: In one part of the seamount range run, one of Borodin's rank stripes is falling off his cuff. In the next shot, it is back to normal.
• Crew or equipment visible: Two cameramen (one in wet jeans and Soviet naval shirt/hat) and equipment (camera covered by plastic) visible during the Red October evacuation.
• Crew or equipment visible: When Capt. Ramius is looking through the periscope, a person wearing a bright red jacket is visible briefly in the reflection. No one on the bridge was wearing red.
• Anachronisms: The Range Rover that drops Sam Ryan at the Airport is seen to have a UK "C" registration plate - this translates to a car registered between August 1985 and July 1986, at least a year after the timeframe of the film.
• Continuity: When Ryan is lowered by helicopter onto the USS Dallas, the submarine actually stops moving in a couple of shots, while it is moving fast in others.
• Audio/visual unsynchronized: When Admiral Painter is looking out onto the flight deck and says "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it", his head and jaw movements are not consistent with the words.
• Miscellaneous: Larry Ferguson ("Chief of the Boat" Watson) is wearing a name tag that has the actor's last name on it instead of Watson.
• Audio/visual unsynchronized: When Captain Ramius says to Jack Ryan, in Russian, "You speak Russian," he actually says the line in English, but the Russian words are dubbed on.
• Revealing mistakes: During the aerial shot for when the Russian Alfa explodes, you can see the pyrotechnics floating in the water for a brief second before they are set off to the right side of the screen.
• Continuity: When Jack is aboard the aircraft carrier he witnesses a plane crashing onto the deck. An F-14 is shown on approach to the aircraft carrier, but the footage of the aircraft crashing is clearly not an F-14 and is obviously archival footage of a much older fighter (actually from an accident that occurred on the USS Prinecton (CVA 37) during the Korean War - the plane (a Grumman F9F Panther) was attempting to land but the pilot was blinded by the setting sun, made a bad approach and crashed as shown and was killed). Following the footage of the F9F crashing into the fantail ramp, an F-14 is shown intact and upright in the barricade.
• Continuity: When Ramius gets the mission orders the instructions are to return to base by the 16th of this month. When Ryan is briefing the generals it is the 23rd of the month (the anniversary of Ramius's wife's death).
• Continuity: The crewman on the Enterprise aircraft carrier who talks to the damaged aircraft on its approach, and eventual crash is the same crewman who appears on the Reuben James frigate when the torpedo is launched from the helicopter. It is unlikely that an air traffic controller on one ship would also be a weapons specialist on another.
• Revealing mistakes: In the helicopter scene when Ryan and the pilot are arguing about the use of the Fuel Reserve, the handwriting on the Pilot's helmet is backwards indication a flipped film.
• Revealing mistakes: On the Penobscot River, while Ryan and Ramius are talking on the bridge of the Red October, just before Ryan states, "Welcome to the new world, sir," the tree line behind him can be seen through his hair, revealing that the scene was shot on a bluescreen. Also, the background seems to move along with the camera, not changing when the camera zooms in on Ryan and Ramius.
• Continuity: When Ryan is flow to the carrier, the interior shot is a C-2 COD, carrier-onboard-delivery aircraft. The exterior shot of the aircraft landing on the deck is the more common E-2 Hawkeye.
• Factual errors: When Ryan is aboard a helicopter, looking for the Dallas, one of the helicopter's crew says, "Pull left, I got a submarine around 3 o'clock," but three o'clock is to his right. The submarine is, a moment later, shown to approach from the helicopter's right.
• Crew or equipment visible: A boom mic is visible for several seconds in the middle of the screen when the camera focuses on Courtney B. Vance a second time after the scene where Sam Neil states that he wants to live in Montana.
• Anachronisms: When Ryan is taken to the meeting where he announces Ramius's plan to defect, the automobile has a third brake light in the center of the back window. Automobiles in the US did not have this third brake light until 1986.
• Miscellaneous: After the Russian "Alpha" submarine arrives, Thompson orders Dallas' crew to battle stations. The lights then change to blue. However, blue signals a loss of power; red signals battle stations.
• Revealing mistakes: When Ryan and Mancuso are watching the plane crash-land into the aircraft carrier on the screen, there is very little sound and vibration on the actual ship.
• Factual errors: Many Soviet officers are shown wearing a submarine qualification pin. Only the Commanding Officer would have one on a Soviet submarine.
• Continuity: After Ramius is shot he's holding his wound with his left hand. The camera the switches angles and he is holding his wound with his right hand. It then switches angles again and he's holding it with his left hand again.
• Plot holes: When Ramius orders Ryan to turn straight into the torpedo, Mancuso insistently countermands the order. Yet after the torpedo collides harmlessly against the hull and Ryan asks what happened, it's Mancuso who explains it. If he knew what Ramius was doing, why was he surprised before?
• Anachronisms: At the beginning, Jack Ryan leaves London at night to arrive in Washington in the morning, then at the end he returns to London during daytime, however flights from London to North America actually leave and arrive during the day and flights to London are overnight.
• Errors made by characters (possibly deliberate errors by the filmmakers): The scene establishing the Russian Alfa sub names its commander "Captain Tupolov" in the on-screen text. The DVD closed captions and the credits both spell his name "Tupolev".
• Factual errors: Admiral tell Ryan that he could be flown out to Dallas on a "chopper". However, in the USN we called them HELO (heelow) as did everyone else.

Crimson Tide

• Factual errors: Numerous violations of standard Navy operating procedures.
• Incorrectly regarded as goofs: Naval officers were formerly allowed to use umbrellas only if they were being held by someone else. However, this rule has been changed.
• Continuity: When the USS Alabama is seen diving, DSRV "targets" are painted on the escape hatches but are not visible throughout rest of film. Targets are not normally left on during normal operations.

• Miscellaneous: The CO is wearing his Dolphins (Submarine Warfare Qualification Pin) and Command at Sea pin on the white shirt of his Service Dress Blues, when they belong on his jacket.
• Miscellaneous: The Chief of the boat can be seen wearing a gold chin strap on his combination cover when addressing the crew; Navy NCOs have black chin straps.
• Factual errors: Several shots of the USS Alabama are not of a Trident (Ohio Class) submarine, rather a 688 (Los Angeles class) fast attack submarine.
• Continuity: The orientation of the oncoming torpedoes is always the same when shown on the sonar scope, yet the crew indicate that the torpedoes' course has changed drastically.
• Factual errors: No submarines have yellow strobe lights in control as depicted aboard the USS Alabama.
• Factual errors: The Rear Admiral's shoulder boards are on the wrong shoulders.
• Factual errors: Ohio-class submarines have no location called "bilge bay".
• Incorrectly regarded as goofs: Smoking is (or at least was, at the time of this movie) permitted on U.S. submarines.
• Factual errors: The sonar is not displayed in the "radar" manner that is depicted in the movie. Actual sonar uses what is a called a "waterfall" display, so called because it shows the different sound frequencies on a vertical display that moves from the top down. One of these displays is shown very briefly at the first moment of contact with the Akula.
• Factual errors: On 26 October, when Hunter briefs the officers after receipt of the first EAM placing forces at Defcon 3, he states the last time forces were at that level of readiness was during the Cuban Missile Crisis, "32 1/2 years ago". The Cuban Missile Crisis was ALSO in October, so no matter what year in which this film was set, there would be no half year involved. And, anyway, it was last ordered in 1973, during the Arab-Israeli War.
• Factual errors: The XO is informed that the fire in the galley could not be extinguished because "the switch was too hot". The galley is equipped with an APC (aqueous potassium carbonate) system for galley fires. It can be activated by pulling a ring next to the equipment, which is probably what they were talking about. However, there is also a remote activation switch outside the compartment and also the system is equipped with a fuse that melts at 400 degrees and automatically initiates the system. Since it was "too hot", the fire probably would have been put out long before the XO showed up. Either way, no one would have to go anywhere near the fire to extinguish it.
• Factual errors: The captain gives the order to fire torpedo tubes 2 and 4; the subsequent shot shows torpedoes firing from opposite sides of the boat. On all U.S. Navy submarines, torpedo tubes 2 and 4 are located on the same side.
• Continuity: During the Alabama's dive, she is seen with her periscope deployed on the surface, with decks awash. There is a cut to an underwater shot from above, that shows her sail with all periscopes retracted, and their doors closed. In the next shot, the boat is fully submerged, with its scope deployed and visible cutting through the water.
• Revealing mistakes: When the officer dies after the fire, he can be seen to adjust himself slightly, having just been pronounced dead.
• Continuity: When Hunter and Ramsey are on the bridge of the sail, the sub is rolling significantly with the swell. The next shot is of a relatively calm sea with the sub ploughing through it with no roll.
• Continuity: The C.O.'s red ball cap changes back and forth to a blue ball cap when he is moving to different parts of the boat.
• Factual errors: There are numerous references that the Russian missiles are being loaded with fuel. At the time of filming (and now), operational Russian missiles contained solid fuel, and did not require "fueling" prior to launch.
• Continuity: During the Captain's announcement to the crew that the Akula class sub is near, you can see that seaman Grattam is in two places at once: in the crew's bunks looking at the fish tank, and in the radio shack.
• Crew or equipment visible: When Denzel saves the day by hitting the magic button during the fire in the kitchen, when it cuts to a wide shot to show Denzel run over to the button, there's is a crew member dressed as a fireman to the left, holding a large camera filming the scene from another angle.
• Factual errors: The Lipizzaner Stallions are neither from Portugal nor Spain. They are native to Slovenia, named after the city "Lipiniec."
• Miscellaneous: On the cover of the unrated extended version the submarine appears to be the USS Silversides (SS-236), a WWII-era sub launched in 1941, and not the USS Alabama (SSBN-731).
• Miscellaneous: By law, when an actor portrays military personal in a movie or TV show they are required to be what the military call, out of uniform. For example, ribbons or medals out of order, or improper insignia on clothing or hats. This is so that technically they are not impersonating military personal.
• Continuity: When Hunter's men are arming up, COB's hat is on/off/on between shots.
• Factual errors: When Ramsey reads Hunter's Record, after he has been removed from command, the last entry says Hunter was stationed as Lt. Commander on the USS Alaska SSBN-723. The USS Alaska is SSBN-732 not 723.
• Factual errors: When the CO is meeting the XO he notes that he has made patrols on fast attacks and boomers. Fast attack submarines do not make "patrols." They are called deployments or missions. Fast attack submarine only make patrols in wartime situations.
• Revealing mistakes: The normal rotation of the sub's propeller is "clockwise", yet there are numerous shots of the sub's propeller clearly spinning "counter-clockwise", specifically during the initial underwater pan of the sub.
• Factual errors: There are several incidents of mis-use of sound powered phones, including a chest set being used for a 1MC. Also, handsets must have button pressed at all times to talk and listen. Vossler holds his as a normal phone which would provide no communications.

Notice that while the K-19 list shows 0 "Factual errors", the other 2 have plenty of them :rotfl:

[Linton]

In THFRO the location chosen for Heathrow airport is definetly not Heathrow.At one stage you hear a crewman on Dallas giving milligrav values.At the time this method of navigation was a restricted subject but has since been de-classified.I also believe that a number of the books and the magazine were not published at the time the film was set