Sci-fi related questions about submarines.

[EFileTahi-A]

Hello, I need some help with ideas and some clarifications regarding possible technologies to be used in sci-fi submarines (using super science if needed). I need this because I'm developing this sci-fi submarine game and it is time to make some serious decisions regarding the technology submarines will use.

1 - Imagine that power output in future would be absurdly high (reaching gigawatts); would be possible to fire powerfull laser beams underwater? Could it, by any chance, be used successfully as a weapon?

2 - Would it be possible to use an energy type of weapon underwater at all?

3 - If I was to develop energy shields how would they operate? How could they work? (I really need a sort of energy shield before detonations or any hazards can reach the subs armor and hull.)

Thank you for any possible information or ideas regarding this peculiar subject.

[U570]

Yeah, it would probably take a fission reactor to create the energy needed, which we don't have, but might have in the next 20 years. mind you they would be about the size of an apartment block.

Any type of weapon similar to a laser would refract from the glass/acrylic cap stopping water getting into the weapon into the water, making it inaccurate. You could however have a directional EMP blast.

I'm not sure how you would be ale to effectively shield a sub from an EMP, have fun figuring that bit out

[Raptor1]

Originally Posted by EFileTahi-A

1 - Imagine that power output in future would be absurdly high (reaching gigawatts); would be possible to fire powerfull laser beams underwater? Could it, by any chance, be used successfully as a weapon?

It's possible to fire a laser underwater, but it would require ridiculous amounts of energy to make it a successful weapon because of diffraction and energy absorption from the water, and even then it would probably only work at very, very close ranges. So I'm not sure it would be very practical.

I'm also guessing that unless your lasers are improbably efficient, you would have to vent a similarly humongous amount of waste heat into the water, which could leave you open to detection in some circumstances.

Originally Posted by EFileTahi-A

2 - Would it be possible to use an energy type of weapon underwater at all?

If by energy weapons you mean lasers, then yes, as I said, you could theoretically fire them underwater. They wouldn't work nearly as well as they would in the air or in space, though. Particle weapons would also suffer from the same problems that lasers have; probably even worse in fact.

Originally Posted by EFileTahi-A

3 - If I was to develop energy shields what would be? How could they work?

They wouldn't without a generous application of magic. The only 'energy shield' I know could theoretically work under physics as they are currently understood is a charged particle field, which could block attacks by charged particle weapons. I doubt that would be very useful underwater, though.

Originally Posted by U570

Yeah, it would probably take a fission reactor to create the energy needed, which we don't have, but might have in the next 20 years. mind you they would be about the size of an apartment block.

Fission reactors have been on submarines for the last 60 years. You're probably thinking of fusion reactors...

[Betonov]

Some kind of sonic pulse weapon. Sound wawes travel faster in water. If you could make a wawe of water dense enough it would destroy the enemy. But make its use chalenging, since wawes tend to bounce from seabed and rocks so you'll have to think when to use it and how to evade.

A heat mine for the lack of a better name. You drop it under the enemy and it starts boiling the water around itself. The bubles that rise to the surface decrease the bouyancy of the water and the ship just ''fals'' trough.

Red octobers catterpiller drive

ROV with sensors that goes to the surface and allows you to observe while being deep bellow.

Frigin sharks with frigin laserbeams on their frigin heads

[EFileTahi-A]

Thank you very much for the replies!

Grabbing the laser concept. How much energy would require to effectively use a laser beam underwater? How much energy would it require and possible effective range?

The thing with lasers was initially to serve as weapons. But if that is simply too ridiculous I can just use them as short distance defense lasers to pop incoming torpedoes.

As for the energy shields. Could energy be used over the sub's armor to increase its toughness? I don't know, something like holding the armor together by generating a strong magnetic field?

This would also play as a strategic role, because when the energy shield would be switched on, the sub could be easily located.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by EFileTahi-A

Thank you very much for the replies!

Grabbing the laser concept. How much energy would require to effectively use a laser beam underwater? How much energy would it require and possible effective range?

The thing with lasers was initially to serve as weapons. But if that is simply too ridiculous I can just use them as short distance defense lasers to pop incoming torpedoes.

As for the energy shields. Could energy be used over the sub's armor to increase its toughness? I don't know, something like holding the armor together by generating a strong magnetic field?

This would also play as a strategic role, because when the energy shield would be switched on, the sub could be easily located.

USN was developing some short of "shield" system to defeat shaped charge warheads of ASCMs. I don't have time to search it out now but if I remember correctly it was being considered for Ford class CVNs. Propably you could use that for ideas.

[Synthfg]

A laser underwater would be completely impractical
the light would be scattered to buggery and absorbed in a short distance,
light doesn't travel very well through water,

An energy weapon such as a photon torpedo or plasma pulse could be effective, it would have to work on the same principles as supercavitating torpedo's such as the Russian VA-111 Shkval to travel at high speed through the water without contacting it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercavitation

Assuming ridiculous amounts of energy, magnetic shielding may be possible by projecting a strong magnetic field around the boat you could in theory deflect or detonate incoming weapons away from the hull, however the field itself would give away your location

[EFileTahi-A]

Originally Posted by Synthfg

A laser underwater would be completely impractical
the light would be scattered to buggery and absorbed in a short distance,
light doesn't travel very well through water,

An energy weapon such as a photon torpedo or plasma pulse could be effective, it would have to work on the same principles as supercavitating torpedo's such as the Russian VA-111 Shkval to travel at high speed through the water without contacting it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VA-111_Shkval
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercavitation

Assuming ridiculous amounts of energy, magnetic shielding may be possible by projecting a strong magnetic field around the boat you could in theory deflect or detonate incoming weapons away from the hull, however the field itself would give away your location

Very interesting! Thank you very much!

[Wolferz]

Microwaves.

[EFileTahi-A]

Ok. Lets summarize the key info:

For weapons we have:
- Sonic Pulse (Directional sound waves which can compact water above the enemy. Most useful if the enemy ship is stationary)
- Plasma / Photon torpedoes that travel in water through supercavitation.
- Conventional torpedoes (with devastating power but limited payload).

For defense we have:
- Magnetic Shield
- Short Defense Laser (to pop incoming torpedoes)

What about a sort of weapon that could froze water at a certain location so it could block incoming torpedoes? Maybe this could actually be explored and turned into a defense shield?

[Betonov]

Originally Posted by EFileTahi-A

What about a sort of weapon that could froze water at a certain location so it could block incoming torpedoes? Maybe this could actually be explored and turned into a defense shield?

Or the sonic weapon used in defense. The same wawe that's used to destroy can also be used to stop a torpedo

[EFileTahi-A]

Originally Posted by Betonov

Or the sonic weapon used in defense. The same wawe that's used to destroy can also be used to stop a torpedo

Yes. All kinds of weapons can be used against incoming torpedoes but I'm thinking about other possibilities so I can manage advantages and disadvantages for each type of weapon. I want the player to think about the offensive and defensive capabilities his sub has as the player itself is the one who builds his own subs from scratch, with the exception of the chassis creation (for now).

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Here is what I was talking about:

Originally Posted by Electromagnetic Armor

... Areas above the waterline would have two layers of thin armor, separated by a small air space. The two layers of armor would be electrified, and when the armor was hit by a shaped charge (favored for cruise missile warheads) the jet of superhot plasma, formed by the shaped charge warhead going off, would be broken up by the electromagnetic field formed when the two layers of armor were forced together...

http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsurf/20070814.aspx
Defence against shaped charge warheads and limited utility against plasma weapons?

[fireftr18]

For weapons: super sound pulse; super accurate, explosive, quiet, and fast torpedo.
For defense: the same super sound pulse; short range lasers; and super deceptive decoys. The same kind of deflector shields that are used on Star Trek.
For power: this is the future, what the heck, use fusion
For propulsion and maneuverability: jet drive nacelles
Remember, this is the future. It can operate with minimal crew, make it a small boat.

[Buddahaid]

Why not a laser? If you have enough energy, a tight beam would just vaporize the water molecules in its way to burning holes in a target. The Navy has succeeded in shooting down a drone though air molecules already. The diffraction effect of the water is meaningless.