A complaint about this game

Daniel Prates · 04-24-12, 01:09 PM

So far, I am still one of the many users "awarded" with a bug in which the game's units simply freeze (but not the game itself). The developers seems to have no clue as to why this happens. All guys who have reported this flaw have acceptable hardware platforms.

Many people complain about that in paradox's specific forum, but our voices are being muffled by an atmosphere of sheer praise and compliments. A too-good-to-be-true cheer, by the way, as the game is plagued with many shortcomings, both in performance (no savegame button in single missons, for instance!) and in realism (aircraft being able to launch withins seconds even if you order their ordnance changed, for instance). I'm not saying that these praises are lies; maybe people just dont know better. Anyway, it is obvious that this "hurray!" climate is bringing down the effort from a part of the comunity (victims of this game's too early, untested release) to point out that main flaws are a fact and no solution is within sight - worse than that, the happiness of a majority of users (could be merely 50% + 1, i dont really know) appears to be posing the complaining ones as: a) an irrelevant group, considering that "so many people" are happy with the game; b) basicly, moaners that have nothing better to do than to disagree with the pre-concept that the devs are the best guys in the world, and thanks god for them.

Should you people be interested, I just posted this commentary on the game's specific forum in paradox forums:

"I would like, at this point, to bring attention to some issues that are not being properly discussed. They relate to this specific bug (of which I am STILL a victim, by the way), but to some other overall issues.

Though the developers (of which I assume JanH is a main representant) are obviously trying (apparently) to solve this main issue, I too think that the problem is being downplayed somewhat, in an indirect manner.

People are always saying that paradox has a huge online comunity, that many developers are there improving their games etc... that is all fine, of course, but it all is said in such a manner as if they (devs and comunity) were doing us FAVOURS of which we were supposed to be imensely grateful.

That is not how it works. We are CUSTUMERS. I bougth a game (this and many others, chech how much games I have activated) because of paradox's standards (which used to be higher). When I buy a game I expect it to work, to have support, to have answers. But all i've been seeing is one of two things: a) a developer saying "we're on it" every now and then, and b) for every time a dev says something, there are 100 other users saying things like "get off the guys back. My game works fine, so its your problem, be patient". As if I were here to get the opinion of other users! Some guy actually had the nerve to come to me and say "its obviously a problem at your end, as I had no such complaint".

Why do I see so many people here in a "touchy" stance? "Oh my, dont complain, the devs are great guys and are doing their best... dont be mean to them... what would happen if they decided to stop being helpful " etc etc... what the heck is going on? We are now coming to understand that we bougth an un-ready game, and we are the bad guys for coming here and complain about it? I paid for this game, damn it, and I want it working! And on the side, I would also like for satisfied customers (or "lucky customers" they should be called, as they are just that, lucky for having the game to work) to stop meddling with anything but constructive opinions. For every constructive opinion I read from an user, I read 10 or so post praising the game and making it seem that the complaining custumers are something like an comunity pariah.

Paradox really should come out and say "here is your money back. We'll correct the game then put it out again - so next time you buy a game from us, you will know we mean business".

Daniel Prates · 04-24-12, 01:18 PM

And I will add saying that, as for now, "fleet command" is still a vastly surpassing game in all aspects. NWAC has potential, but it is still far from it. Maybe we will see, in the future, a more mature game, be it an oficial development, be it a comunity-improved game. But the truth of the matter is that if a guy cant simply get a game to work, or even complain about it without having the comunity to stone him... that is rough.

Paradox used to be better. I sure hope they are reading this.

Julhelm · 04-24-12, 01:53 PM

Consider that this is the only naval sim to have been released recently. You and others say Fleet Command is better, but that game came out in what, 1998? Whole different time and climate then, so the type of bitching I see on the NWAC boards, ie "This game sucks, Fleet Command is better" is not constructive at all.

And I think the naval crowd has not forgotten that bitching killed the SH series, leaving us with nothing. The game has potential and the devs are working on fixing the bugs. They're not going to get the patch out quicker just because people complain more about the same problem.

These guys deserve the praise simply for trying. After all they could've been making social games and made tons of money.

mapuc · 04-24-12, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Consider that this is the only naval sim to have been released recently. You and others say Fleet Command is better, but that game came out in what, 1998? Whole different time and climate then, so the type of bitching I see on the NWAC boards, ie "This game sucks, Fleet Command is better" is not constructive at all.

And I think the naval crowd has not forgotten that bitching killed the SH series, leaving us with nothing. The game has potential and the devs are working on fixing the bugs. They're not going to get the patch out quicker just because people complain more about the same problem.

These guys deserve the praise simply for trying. After all they could've been making social games and made tons of money.

I have only tried the Demo-version so far. I also have the old FC and I say the same FC was and stil is better than this new game. Yes FC is old but it's concept is somehow better.

Give them a Chance!!?? why??? You do not send a game on the market, that crash/freeze the game or your computer. If it does happen, the devoloper should remove the game from the market and fix it.

Markus

Daniel Prates · 04-24-12, 02:45 PM

Julhem, you are evading the topic alltogether. It is about the game NOT WORKING for a lot of costumers, and also about and the lack of response - no, actually, the combat that game suporters are posing, in such a manner that complaining about an obvious game flaw has become subject of HOSTILITY in paradox's forum.

That is what my bitch and moan is all about. It is not about comparing FC to NWAC.

PS: though there is no fair compairson between the two.

Arclight · 04-24-12, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

Give them a Chance!!?? why??? You do not send a game on the market, that crash/freeze the game or your computer. If it does happen, the devoloper should remove the game from the market and fix it.

By that logic, Fleet Command shouldn't be here either.

* the relevant thread over at Paradox btw, seeing as how it isn't linked to here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...freeze-problem

Bilge_Rat · 04-24-12, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

That is what my bitch and moan is all about. It is not about comparing FC to NWAC.

PS: though there is no fair compairson between the two.

Oh, you must have played a different "Fleet Command" than me. When it was first released, FC was referred to as "Harpoon lite", pretty but not very realistic.

Please lets not turn this into another SH3 vs SH5 slugfest.

I understand your frustation, but tracking down hardware problems on a new game is often the most frustating. I have played the game over 10 hours now and have had zero freezes or CTDs.

Julhelm · 04-24-12, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Prates

Julhem, you are evading the topic alltogether. It is about the game NOT WORKING for a lot of costumers, and also about and the lack of response

Bull****. The devs are working on a patch. Ergo they are trying to fix the issue that prevents some of their customers from playing the game. What more response can you ask for? Like I said, constantly creating new topics and bitching about the same bug in every thread the way sim fans tend to do accomplishes nothing but create the reputation that the game itself is a lemon , thus negatively affecting sales and further diminishing the chance of us getting any new naval games in the foreseeable future. As for me I'd rather not be stuck with playing 10+ year old games forever. If 300+ strong AAA dev teams cannot release bugfree games, what makes you think a small indie dev can deliver a flawless product as their first game?

0rpheus · 04-24-12, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julhelm

Bull****. The devs are working on a patch. Ergo they are trying to fix the issue that prevents some of their customers from playing the game. What more response can you ask for? Like I said, constantly creating new topics and bitching about the same bug in every thread the way sim fans tend to do accomplishes nothing but create the reputation that the game itself is a lemon , thus negatively affecting sales and further diminishing the chance of us getting any new naval games in the foreseeable future. As for me I'd rather not be stuck with playing 10+ year old games forever. If 300+ strong AAA dev teams cannot release bugfree games, what makes you think a small indie dev can deliver a flawless product as their first game?

Have to agree with this. Considering the state some other games are released in (cough Cliffs of Dover cough), and the often poor QA reputation that comes with Paradox games, I think NWAC is in a pretty decent state.

@ OP - Raging for your money back is a waste of breath, it won't happen. In actual fact, JanH seems to have gone to a fair amount of effort to reassure users that the freeze problem is being investigated - logs are being sent at his request to help identify the cause. This is a lot further than the majority of developers go, in fact you're lucky that the devs post at all.

As for the atmosphere of 'positivity' getting in the way of your (admittedly legitimate) complaints, well, I hardly know what to say. The first naval game released in god knows how many years, and you're upset that the happy people are drowning out your whining, even after they've stated they're doing all they can to find and fix the error?

Priorities and all that.

jpinard · 04-24-12, 09:00 PM

Very sad Mr. Prates <--- he didn't like my response to him and others in the official forum so he comes here to whine and hurt the game. And here I thought Brazilians didn't have the selfish, entitlement attitude us Americans always seem to have. Disappointed to say the least.

In response, (and to put it in perspective) the game hasn't even been out 14 days yet and their team is only 6 people! I had to wait 2 MONTHS for fixes to Civ V and that game cost $60 and had a team of 50+. I was upset by Civ V and posting similar rants to Daniel Prates, then realized what an entitled ass I was being and how a game... compared with the world's problems is silly to get all Chernobyl over.

Daniel - if something this little gives you such emotional and indignant feelings - do something productive with it. Go save your environment, forests and protect Amazon tributaries. Countless plant and animal species humans could use for medicine and science are going extinct due to timber, overpopulation, and poaching in your country. One person CAN make a difference.

soopaman2 · 04-24-12, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mapuc

I have only tried the Demo-version so far. I also have the old FC and I say the same FC was and stil is better than this new game. Yes FC is old but it's concept is somehow better.

Give them a Chance!!?? why??? You do not send a game on the market, that crash/freeze the game or your computer. If it does happen, the devoloper should remove the game from the market and fix it.

Markus

I too tried the demo and found it lacking. Not that the game was bad, or not fun. I just found it lacking something to keep me hooked.

Not speaking bad on it mind you. I did find it fun, just not "addictive".

Takeda Shingen · 04-24-12, 10:16 PM

Let's keep this from getting personal, guys. Argue the game not the person.

The Management

jpinard · 04-24-12, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2

I too tried the demo and found it lacking. Not that the game was bad, or not fun. I just found it lacking something to keep me hooked.

Not speaking bad on it mind you. I did find it fun, just not "addictive".

I felt that way at first too. But when I realized this was more a mix of Defcon & Fleet Command as opposed to a Fleet Command clone I started enjoying it a lot more.

soopaman2 · 04-24-12, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpinard

I felt that way at first too. But when I realized this was more a mix of Defcon & Fleet Command as opposed to a Fleet Command clone I started enjoying it a lot more.

At the price of the game in all honesty it is worth it. 20(USD) is half the beer required for the boys when they come over to watch a football game.

At least the game won't pee in my wifes flowerbed.

Foxendown · 04-25-12, 06:42 AM

I sort of see both sides of this argument and would add that two issues are being run together here.

1. Criticism that the game is lite, unrealistic and generally buggier and not as good as xyz (choose from the tiny number of modern naval sims).

2. Understandable frustration that some people using XP can't play it because of a bug which the developers frankly admit is down to bad QA.

Regarding 1, the game isn't Harpoon or Global Conflict Blue but it doesn't claim to be. It set out from the start to be accessible and bring in new people to this tiny and fragile genre. I say a hearty "well done" to the developers for that. We've also been told it's highly moddable. If that is the case, the community will be able to make a big contribution to fixing what's wrong with it over time.

Regarding 2, I am one of the people who can't play the game on my XP gaming PC. Like Neal, I can play it as a slide show on my laptop. Clearly Turbo Tape have made a serious error here that has cost them sales and engendered a lot of grumpy posts. At first I found that situation annoying I admit, but the developers have been so refreshingly honest and have committed to fix the problem that I now really want to give them some space to do that (and they are a small team).

If the worse comes to the worse I will be playing an enhanced version in a couple of years time when I have to upgrade my OS because it's going out of support. In the meantime, I am happy for them to have my money as a contribution to further development of this type of sim which let's face it doesn't appear very often. Now, back to GCB2 and DW.....(and looking forward to Command).

04-24-12, 01:09 PM	#1
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	A complaint about this game So far, I am still one of the many users "awarded" with a bug in which the game's units simply freeze (but not the game itself). The developers seems to have no clue as to why this happens. All guys who have reported this flaw have acceptable hardware platforms. Many people complain about that in paradox's specific forum, but our voices are being muffled by an atmosphere of sheer praise and compliments. A too-good-to-be-true cheer, by the way, as the game is plagued with many shortcomings, both in performance (no savegame button in single missons, for instance!) and in realism (aircraft being able to launch withins seconds even if you order their ordnance changed, for instance). I'm not saying that these praises are lies; maybe people just dont know better. Anyway, it is obvious that this "hurray!" climate is bringing down the effort from a part of the comunity (victims of this game's too early, untested release) to point out that main flaws are a fact and no solution is within sight - worse than that, the happiness of a majority of users (could be merely 50% + 1, i dont really know) appears to be posing the complaining ones as: a) an irrelevant group, considering that "so many people" are happy with the game; b) basicly, moaners that have nothing better to do than to disagree with the pre-concept that the devs are the best guys in the world, and thanks god for them. Should you people be interested, I just posted this commentary on the game's specific forum in paradox forums: "I would like, at this point, to bring attention to some issues that are not being properly discussed. They relate to this specific bug (of which I am STILL a victim, by the way), but to some other overall issues. Though the developers (of which I assume JanH is a main representant) are obviously trying (apparently) to solve this main issue, I too think that the problem is being downplayed somewhat, in an indirect manner. People are always saying that paradox has a huge online comunity, that many developers are there improving their games etc... that is all fine, of course, but it all is said in such a manner as if they (devs and comunity) were doing us FAVOURS of which we were supposed to be imensely grateful. That is not how it works. We are CUSTUMERS. I bougth a game (this and many others, chech how much games I have activated) because of paradox's standards (which used to be higher). When I buy a game I expect it to work, to have support, to have answers. But all i've been seeing is one of two things: a) a developer saying "we're on it" every now and then, and b) for every time a dev says something, there are 100 other users saying things like "get off the guys back. My game works fine, so its your problem, be patient". As if I were here to get the opinion of other users! Some guy actually had the nerve to come to me and say "its obviously a problem at your end, as I had no such complaint". Why do I see so many people here in a "touchy" stance? "Oh my, dont complain, the devs are great guys and are doing their best... dont be mean to them... what would happen if they decided to stop being helpful " etc etc... what the heck is going on? We are now coming to understand that we bougth an un-ready game, and we are the bad guys for coming here and complain about it? I paid for this game, damn it, and I want it working! And on the side, I would also like for satisfied customers (or "lucky customers" they should be called, as they are just that, lucky for having the game to work) to stop meddling with anything but constructive opinions. For every constructive opinion I read from an user, I read 10 or so post praising the game and making it seem that the complaining custumers are something like an comunity pariah. Paradox really should come out and say "here is your money back. We'll correct the game then put it out again - so next time you buy a game from us, you will know we mean business".

04-24-12, 01:18 PM	#2
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	And I will add saying that, as for now, "fleet command" is still a vastly surpassing game in all aspects. NWAC has potential, but it is still far from it. Maybe we will see, in the future, a more mature game, be it an oficial development, be it a comunity-improved game. But the truth of the matter is that if a guy cant simply get a game to work, or even complain about it without having the comunity to stone him... that is rough. Paradox used to be better. I sure hope they are reading this.

04-24-12, 01:53 PM	#3
Julhelm Seasoned Skipper Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: The Icy North Posts: 693 Downloads: 189 Uploads: 0	Consider that this is the only naval sim to have been released recently. You and others say Fleet Command is better, but that game came out in what, 1998? Whole different time and climate then, so the type of bitching I see on the NWAC boards, ie "This game sucks, Fleet Command is better" is not constructive at all. And I think the naval crowd has not forgotten that bitching killed the SH series, leaving us with nothing. The game has potential and the devs are working on fixing the bugs. They're not going to get the patch out quicker just because people complain more about the same problem. These guys deserve the praise simply for trying. After all they could've been making social games and made tons of money.

04-24-12, 02:45 PM	#5
Daniel Prates Grey Wolf Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Curitiba, Brazil Posts: 938 Downloads: 65 Uploads: 0	Julhem, you are evading the topic alltogether. It is about the game NOT WORKING for a lot of costumers, and also about and the lack of response - no, actually, the combat that game suporters are posing, in such a manner that complaining about an obvious game flaw has become subject of HOSTILITY in paradox's forum. That is what my bitch and moan is all about. It is not about comparing FC to NWAC. PS: though there is no fair compairson between the two.

04-24-12, 09:00 PM	#10
jpinard Mate Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 58 Downloads: 11 Uploads: 0	Very sad Mr. Prates <--- he didn't like my response to him and others in the official forum so he comes here to whine and hurt the game. And here I thought Brazilians didn't have the selfish, entitlement attitude us Americans always seem to have. Disappointed to say the least. In response, (and to put it in perspective) the game hasn't even been out 14 days yet and their team is only 6 people! I had to wait 2 MONTHS for fixes to Civ V and that game cost $60 and had a team of 50+. I was upset by Civ V and posting similar rants to Daniel Prates, then realized what an entitled ass I was being and how a game... compared with the world's problems is silly to get all Chernobyl over. Daniel - if something this little gives you such emotional and indignant feelings - do something productive with it. Go save your environment, forests and protect Amazon tributaries. Countless plant and animal species humans could use for medicine and science are going extinct due to timber, overpopulation, and poaching in your country. One person CAN make a difference.

04-24-12, 10:16 PM	#12
Takeda Shingen Navy Seal Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 8,643 Downloads: 19 Uploads: 0	Let's keep this from getting personal, guys. Argue the game not the person. The Management

04-25-12, 06:42 AM	#15
Foxendown Bosun Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 68 Downloads: 79 Uploads: 0	I sort of see both sides of this argument and would add that two issues are being run together here. 1. Criticism that the game is lite, unrealistic and generally buggier and not as good as xyz (choose from the tiny number of modern naval sims). 2. Understandable frustration that some people using XP can't play it because of a bug which the developers frankly admit is down to bad QA. Regarding 1, the game isn't Harpoon or Global Conflict Blue but it doesn't claim to be. It set out from the start to be accessible and bring in new people to this tiny and fragile genre. I say a hearty "well done" to the developers for that. We've also been told it's highly moddable. If that is the case, the community will be able to make a big contribution to fixing what's wrong with it over time. Regarding 2, I am one of the people who can't play the game on my XP gaming PC. Like Neal, I can play it as a slide show on my laptop. Clearly Turbo Tape have made a serious error here that has cost them sales and engendered a lot of grumpy posts. At first I found that situation annoying I admit, but the developers have been so refreshingly honest and have committed to fix the problem that I now really want to give them some space to do that (and they are a small team). If the worse comes to the worse I will be playing an enhanced version in a couple of years time when I have to upgrade my OS because it's going out of support. In the meantime, I am happy for them to have my money as a contribution to further development of this type of sim which let's face it doesn't appear very often. Now, back to GCB2 and DW.....(and looking forward to Command).