Destroyers discovering me no matter what i do ???

minett · 07-16-12, 05:41 PM

im not sure if others suffer this but here it goes using this mod layout

my mod list is as follows im unsure if im honest if its in the correct order i know a few are

Accurate German Flags
RemoveLogoIntroTheDarkWraith
sobers green spinning thing SH5
NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator
Dynamic Environment SH5 Basemod (normal ) V2.1
Dynamic Environment SH5 DarkerNights V2.1
stoianm colored exterior mod v2 (low color)
Dynamic Environment SH5 v 2.1 - Skycolor Hotfix #1
sobers better terrain v3 SH5
sobers best ever fog V12 SH5
sobers best ever waves V5 SH5
North Atlantic Green 1.1
sobers see thru wake fix
sobers_realistic_underwater_FX2
sobers 3D deck spray mod V7
Window_Lights_Redone_V1
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.2
SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.2.2 Patch
NewUIs_TDC_6_9_0_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_6_9_0_alt_officer_wounded_by_Torpedo
NewUIs_TDC_6_9_2_Patch_ByTheDarkWraith
NewUIs_TDC_6_9_2_Patch_RadCapTools_0_2_alpha
MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces
MCCD_1.04_MFCM_1.2.1_compatible
Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 Basemod
Rubini_Crash_dive_fix_for MCFM 1.2.1&MCCD v1.3b_For_All
FX_Update_0_0_19_ByTheDarkWraith
IRAI_0_0_37_ByTheDarkWraith
TDW_No_Hydrophone_On_Surface_1_1_0
AI_sub_crew_1_0_2_TheDarkWraith
Cerberus62 Corrected Depth Charge Projector 1.0
Reworked Morale and Abilities v.1.01
OPEN HORIZONS II_full v1.9
OHII Higher Tonnage Objectives for v1.9
OHIIv1.9_Patch1
OHII_traffic_speed_Fix_v2
sobers green crew training V3 SH5
TDW FX Fix for Sobers chimney smoke
sobers NO water drops V1
sobers Lights Cfg V4 SH5
sobers no footstep sound mod
Shadow Improvement ModLR
SH5Lifeboats_by_Rongel_TDW_stoianm_v2.11
sobers bad weather deck gun V1 SH5
U-boat Historical Specifications 1.7 for TDW Mods
stoianm upgrade available mod stock file

on attacking a convoy i move into position and sit and wait submerged for the convoy to almost be on top of me .

soon as i move out of silent running the escorts descover me and dc ..

they dont even no im there just cant run in anything but silent running im only in 1940 so i cant see the escorts being able to find me that easy .

i cant get a clear run on a convoy because of this .

can anyone help ???

Maki4444 · 07-17-12, 02:13 AM

Yes of course.

So the thing is to get into position while you are out of visual range of the convoy. That means on the surface. You have the UZO, binoculars, you can see them alright. You have to flank speed, on the surface in front of them. and then by the position of their hulls and smoke stacks try to determine at what angle they will come at you.

That is to get a good distance on an intercept course. When you think you just about got it, dive and activate silent running. Use the periscope and hydrophone to see if they are coming at you at a good angle, you can close the distance with 1/3 speed.

If you can see as if the ship is heading straight at you at a 90 degree angel. That means he will run over you, so move back a bit until you can see his front, a little bit of side. Make him skewed a bit but to the front, that means he will pass you at not such a great distance. If the ships are like 5000 meters away from you at 30 degrees you will miss them

The hydrophone can be used like so: where is nearest contact and the hydrophone guy says 275. Wait 5 minutes, where is contact now. If hydrophone guy says something like 300, that means the ship is coming at you at a bigger angle and when he is in front of you will pass at a great distance, too great to fire from. If he says something like 276. It's okay. Because in 5 minutes he changed his angle for only one degree.

Is this somewhat understandable??

And yes, when you're that close they can hear you certainly. They are constantly sweeping for subs, you try to flank it or ever 2/3 so close, they will catch on to you for sure. They will not sink you if you evade in 1940, but they will force you to call off the attack. It is realistic. Destroyers just didn't have good tactics and anti sub weapons back then, they weren't completely deaf

Hinrich Schwab · 07-17-12, 04:39 AM

I do not see anything in your mod soup to indicate a conflict. Since you have IRAI installed, I can only conclude that you are being discovered because you are making mistakes that mark your submarine. Compared to the stock SH5 AI, which is laughably stupid, IRAI is pretty johnny-on-the-spot with inexperienced or careless Kaleuns. Your statement, "...when I stop silent running..." really caught my eye. You never stated how close you were when you get busted, but since you mentioned running silent, I can only assume that you were close enough to need it. When I go silent, I never stop until I know I am out of escort range. I personally use a "5/10" rule with escorts. I assume being outside effective ASDIC range at ~5km. I assume being outside effective visual range at 10km except in excellent weather, where I add another 2km to that.

It would really help if you elaborate more specifically on what you are doing that is getting you detected. Your mods are not the problem, your tactics are most likely the issue.

minett · 07-17-12, 10:03 AM

firstly thanks to both of you for your prompt responses .

Im moving into position pretty well and my firing angle is always good , basically as soon as im within 500 yards of the convoy be it from the front or middle i moved from silent speed to 1/3 i never flank speed unless i have to so i didnt think i was running to loud so to speak .

I didnt feel like the escorts if not looking would discover me at all , but from what Maki4444 states they are sweeping all the time , i didnt no this so perhaps im making myself known .. as soon as i move to any speed apart from silent even 1/3 the buggers are on top dc me and causing all sorts of mayhem .

Its defo nothing to do with visual as im well under before im spotted ..

If that is the realism of the game great :-) was just unsure i will change my tactics , i was unsure the ASDIC was so effective in 1940 ...

Im a sh3 vet and was bloody good at it but sh5 is different for sure and the IRAI mod is amazing really as without it the game is silly

thanks again guys guess i need to changed my rookie sh5 tactics

07-17-12, 10:26 AM

a trick i like to use is i go deep (near max depth) and that masks my detection until i get close, often i will wait until the DD pass overhead then come up in the middle of the convoy and send fish in all directions at as many ships as i can get solutions on so there is a comotion going on everywhere. i then dive deep and use silent running to make my escape. the confusion of ships changing course and getting paths crossed interferes with the DD ability to lock onto you even if they have a good idea where you are, just dont be greedy and stay too long or you will have them crawling all over you

Maki4444 · 07-17-12, 10:56 AM

Webster definitely makes a good point on going deep. The farthest I have come in the campaign is about early 1941.
The destroyers aren't so bright at that time. But with IRAI and OHII I think that 1943 proves much more of a challenge. Definitely requires going deep until the destroyer passes overhead, not raising your periscope for more than a few seconds, tailing a convoy at 12 km or so.

The great thing about the modded game is that at first you only come across single ships. Then it's convoys but with inexperienced escorts.
The point I am trying to make is that the game allows you to build up experience and it really pays off to learn and practice a trick or two.

That's why even if I am getting ready to fire at a single merchant I am still in silent running and I try not to have my periscope out for long. Because it's practice for the not so friendly future

GT182 · 08-07-12, 07:19 PM

Make sure you've ordered Silent Running. And make sure you are no faster than 2kts.... 1 kt is even better and they shouldn't hear you.

When the destroyers come after me, my men are already at Battle Stations and I had ordered Silent Running before going in to attack. I never go over 2kts, and usually slip completely away at 1kt.

Don't worry, torpedos will still be loaded with Silent Rumnning in effect.... tho it will take a little longer to load them. It's not like SH3 where lodding topedos stops if Silent Running has been ordered.

DelphiUniverse · 08-07-12, 10:10 PM

Release a decoy, press the Y key. I had Irai mod installed and had 3 destroyers searching me like madmen, sink bombing me like if they were posessed with the thought of killing me. I had absolutely no chance of escaping them while running at 1 knot. The only way I got away was by tricking them with several decoys.

After several hours, I finally escaped the bastards, and when I did, I couldn't believe it myself. I really had it that my fate was to sink right there. I barely had any oxygen, CO2 level skyhigh and battery uncharmingly flat. I think I got up by blowing the main ballast from periscope height.

But I survived the damn thing, and it was good. I always enjoy watching destroyers and escorts close up, but this was one of those times that I found it pleasing to see it fade away on the horizon.

The General · 08-11-12, 07:40 AM

There was a bug in SH5 where an Escort will lock onto you and follow you forever, unlesss you saved and reloaded. Does anyone now if this has been cured?

Hinrich Schwab · 08-11-12, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The General

There was a bug in SH5 where an Escort will lock onto you and follow you forever, unlesss you saved and reloaded. Does anyone now if this has been cured?

Nope. It still happens on occasion. If you are willing to burn fuel, you can usually outrun them at flank until they are 25+km away, where the AI removes them from rendering and it resolves itself. I have never seen the "phantom escort" faster than 15 knots.

Trevally. · 08-11-12, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hinrich Schwab

Nope. It still happens on occasion. If you are willing to burn fuel, you can usually outrun them at flank until they are 25+km away, where the AI removes them from rendering and it resolves itself. I have never seen the "phantom escort" faster than 15 knots.

The worst one is when it happens and a refuel tanker gets stuck to you.
A save load doesn not fix it.
The tanker then charges at you at 15 knots and will hit you if you are not running away from it.
The only way I have found to get rid of it is to out run it - wasting the precious fuel you have just taken onboard.

I guess you could sink it

volodya61 · 08-11-12, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hinrich Schwab

Nope. It still happens on occasion. If you are willing to burn fuel, you can usually outrun them at flank until they are 25+km away, where the AI removes them from rendering and it resolves itself. I have never seen the "phantom escort" faster than 15 knots.

Maybe ask TDW about it? Maybe he will be able to solve that problem?

Trevally. · 08-11-12, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by volodya61

Maybe ask TDW about it? Maybe he will be able to solve that problem?

Im sure he has said he need to catch this happening to run the AIScript debug. This is the tricky bit as you cant save it (save load fixes it)

I have found that with the tanker refuelling - it happens most times and this is a good way to catch it with the debug.

@TDW
I can make a single mission with a refuel tanker if you want to check this out.

Sartoris · 08-11-12, 08:28 AM

That's a good idea, Trevally, I hope TDW can help with this if you create a mission.

volodya61 · 08-11-12, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevally.

Im sure he has said he need to catch this happening to run the AIScript debug. This is the tricky bit as you cant save it (save load fixes it)

I have found that with the tanker refuelling - it happens most times and this is a good way to catch it with the debug.

@TDW
I can make a single mission with a refuel tanker if you want to check this out.

It would be great if he could solve this problem with your help because sometimes it strongly annoying..

08-07-12, 07:19 PM	#7
GT182 Ocean Warrior Join Date: May 2005 Location: New Castle of Delaware Posts: 3,231 Downloads: 658 Uploads: 0	Make sure you've ordered Silent Running. And make sure you are no faster than 2kts.... 1 kt is even better and they shouldn't hear you. When the destroyers come after me, my men are already at Battle Stations and I had ordered Silent Running before going in to attack. I never go over 2kts, and usually slip completely away at 1kt. Don't worry, torpedos will still be loaded with Silent Rumnning in effect.... tho it will take a little longer to load them. It's not like SH3 where lodding topedos stops if Silent Running has been ordered. __________________ Gary No Borders, No Language, No Culture =s No Country I'm a Deplorable, and proud of it.

08-11-12, 07:40 AM	#9
The General The Old Man Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Mountain Ash, Wales, U.K. Posts: 1,548 Downloads: 179 Uploads: 3	There was a bug in SH5 where an Escort will lock onto you and follow you forever, unlesss you saved and reloaded. Does anyone now if this has been cured? __________________ *THE GENERAL*

07-16-12, 05:41 PM	#1
minett Watch Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England Posts: 23 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	Destroyers discovering me no matter what i do ??? im not sure if others suffer this but here it goes using this mod layout my mod list is as follows im unsure if im honest if its in the correct order i know a few are Accurate German Flags RemoveLogoIntroTheDarkWraith sobers green spinning thing SH5 NDB,NDH OM#1 - No Dialog Indicator Dynamic Environment SH5 Basemod (normal ) V2.1 Dynamic Environment SH5 DarkerNights V2.1 stoianm colored exterior mod v2 (low color) Dynamic Environment SH5 v 2.1 - Skycolor Hotfix #1 sobers better terrain v3 SH5 sobers best ever fog V12 SH5 sobers best ever waves V5 SH5 North Atlantic Green 1.1 sobers see thru wake fix sobers_realistic_underwater_FX2 sobers 3D deck spray mod V7 Window_Lights_Redone_V1 SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.2 SteelViking's Interior Mod V1.2.2 Patch NewUIs_TDC_6_9_0_ByTheDarkWraith NewUIs_TDC_6_9_0_alt_officer_wounded_by_Torpedo NewUIs_TDC_6_9_2_Patch_ByTheDarkWraith NewUIs_TDC_6_9_2_Patch_RadCapTools_0_2_alpha MightyFine Crew Mod 1.2.1 Alt faces MCCD_1.04_MFCM_1.2.1_compatible Stormys DBSM SH5 v1.3 Basemod Rubini_Crash_dive_fix_for MCFM 1.2.1&MCCD v1.3b_For_All FX_Update_0_0_19_ByTheDarkWraith IRAI_0_0_37_ByTheDarkWraith TDW_No_Hydrophone_On_Surface_1_1_0 AI_sub_crew_1_0_2_TheDarkWraith Cerberus62 Corrected Depth Charge Projector 1.0 Reworked Morale and Abilities v.1.01 OPEN HORIZONS II_full v1.9 OHII Higher Tonnage Objectives for v1.9 OHIIv1.9_Patch1 OHII_traffic_speed_Fix_v2 sobers green crew training V3 SH5 TDW FX Fix for Sobers chimney smoke sobers NO water drops V1 sobers Lights Cfg V4 SH5 sobers no footstep sound mod Shadow Improvement ModLR SH5Lifeboats_by_Rongel_TDW_stoianm_v2.11 sobers bad weather deck gun V1 SH5 U-boat Historical Specifications 1.7 for TDW Mods stoianm upgrade available mod stock file on attacking a convoy i move into position and sit and wait submerged for the convoy to almost be on top of me . soon as i move out of silent running the escorts descover me and dc .. they dont even no im there just cant run in anything but silent running im only in 1940 so i cant see the escorts being able to find me that easy . i cant get a clear run on a convoy because of this . can anyone help ???

07-17-12, 02:13 AM	#2
Maki4444 Sparky Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Croatia Posts: 152 Downloads: 334 Uploads: 0	Yes of course. So the thing is to get into position while you are out of visual range of the convoy. That means on the surface. You have the UZO, binoculars, you can see them alright. You have to flank speed, on the surface in front of them. and then by the position of their hulls and smoke stacks try to determine at what angle they will come at you. That is to get a good distance on an intercept course. When you think you just about got it, dive and activate silent running. Use the periscope and hydrophone to see if they are coming at you at a good angle, you can close the distance with 1/3 speed. If you can see as if the ship is heading straight at you at a 90 degree angel. That means he will run over you, so move back a bit until you can see his front, a little bit of side. Make him skewed a bit but to the front, that means he will pass you at not such a great distance. If the ships are like 5000 meters away from you at 30 degrees you will miss them The hydrophone can be used like so: where is nearest contact and the hydrophone guy says 275. Wait 5 minutes, where is contact now. If hydrophone guy says something like 300, that means the ship is coming at you at a bigger angle and when he is in front of you will pass at a great distance, too great to fire from. If he says something like 276. It's okay. Because in 5 minutes he changed his angle for only one degree. Is this somewhat understandable?? And yes, when you're that close they can hear you certainly. They are constantly sweeping for subs, you try to flank it or ever 2/3 so close, they will catch on to you for sure. They will not sink you if you evade in 1940, but they will force you to call off the attack. It is realistic. Destroyers just didn't have good tactics and anti sub weapons back then, they weren't completely deaf

07-17-12, 04:39 AM	#3
Hinrich Schwab Grey Wolf Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 908 Downloads: 89 Uploads: 0	I do not see anything in your mod soup to indicate a conflict. Since you have IRAI installed, I can only conclude that you are being discovered because you are making mistakes that mark your submarine. Compared to the stock SH5 AI, which is laughably stupid, IRAI is pretty johnny-on-the-spot with inexperienced or careless Kaleuns. Your statement, "...when I stop silent running..." really caught my eye. You never stated how close you were when you get busted, but since you mentioned running silent, I can only assume that you were close enough to need it. When I go silent, I never stop until I know I am out of escort range. I personally use a "5/10" rule with escorts. I assume being outside effective ASDIC range at ~5km. I assume being outside effective visual range at 10km except in excellent weather, where I add another 2km to that. It would really help if you elaborate more specifically on what you are doing that is getting you detected. Your mods are not the problem, your tactics are most likely the issue.

07-17-12, 10:03 AM	#4
minett Watch Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England Posts: 23 Downloads: 160 Uploads: 0	firstly thanks to both of you for your prompt responses . Im moving into position pretty well and my firing angle is always good , basically as soon as im within 500 yards of the convoy be it from the front or middle i moved from silent speed to 1/3 i never flank speed unless i have to so i didnt think i was running to loud so to speak . I didnt feel like the escorts if not looking would discover me at all , but from what Maki4444 states they are sweeping all the time , i didnt no this so perhaps im making myself known .. as soon as i move to any speed apart from silent even 1/3 the buggers are on top dc me and causing all sorts of mayhem . Its defo nothing to do with visual as im well under before im spotted .. If that is the realism of the game great :-) was just unsure i will change my tactics , i was unsure the ASDIC was so effective in 1940 ... Im a sh3 vet and was bloody good at it but sh5 is different for sure and the IRAI mod is amazing really as without it the game is silly thanks again guys guess i need to changed my rookie sh5 tactics

07-17-12, 10:26 AM	#5
Webster Stowaway Posts: n/a Downloads: Uploads:	a trick i like to use is i go deep (near max depth) and that masks my detection until i get close, often i will wait until the DD pass overhead then come up in the middle of the convoy and send fish in all directions at as many ships as i can get solutions on so there is a comotion going on everywhere. i then dive deep and use silent running to make my escape. the confusion of ships changing course and getting paths crossed interferes with the DD ability to lock onto you even if they have a good idea where you are, just dont be greedy and stay too long or you will have them crawling all over you

07-17-12, 10:56 AM	#6
Maki4444 Sparky Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Croatia Posts: 152 Downloads: 334 Uploads: 0	Webster definitely makes a good point on going deep. The farthest I have come in the campaign is about early 1941. The destroyers aren't so bright at that time. But with IRAI and OHII I think that 1943 proves much more of a challenge. Definitely requires going deep until the destroyer passes overhead, not raising your periscope for more than a few seconds, tailing a convoy at 12 km or so. The great thing about the modded game is that at first you only come across single ships. Then it's convoys but with inexperienced escorts. The point I am trying to make is that the game allows you to build up experience and it really pays off to learn and practice a trick or two. That's why even if I am getting ready to fire at a single merchant I am still in silent running and I try not to have my periscope out for long. Because it's practice for the not so friendly future

08-07-12, 10:10 PM	#8
DelphiUniverse 中国水兵 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Scapa Flow, underneath a ferry Posts: 272 Downloads: 125 Uploads: 0	Release a decoy, press the Y key. I had Irai mod installed and had 3 destroyers searching me like madmen, sink bombing me like if they were posessed with the thought of killing me. I had absolutely no chance of escaping them while running at 1 knot. The only way I got away was by tricking them with several decoys. After several hours, I finally escaped the bastards, and when I did, I couldn't believe it myself. I really had it that my fate was to sink right there. I barely had any oxygen, CO2 level skyhigh and battery uncharmingly flat. I think I got up by blowing the main ballast from periscope height. But I survived the damn thing, and it was good. I always enjoy watching destroyers and escorts close up, but this was one of those times that I found it pleasing to see it fade away on the horizon.

08-11-12, 08:28 AM	#14
Sartoris Captain Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 489 Downloads: 106 Uploads: 0	That's a good idea, Trevally, I hope TDW can help with this if you create a mission.