[REQ] AI tweak?

[finchOU]

I'm running IRAI.

got spotted on the surface by a convoy escort (Jun 1940)..... every escort abandoned the Convoy to try and kill me. While I would normally think this a good thing for AI.....it's not a hunter killer....the convoy is completely unprotected.....and it's mid 1940. I've got to call the realism BS card on this one. The main duty of the escorts was to drive away and force Subs to submerge (early on).... due to the technology being lacking in ASW (early ASDIC and no RADAR)... once the sub was force to dive...the escort might hang around for bit...but would leave rather quickly to go back and protect the convoy. Got 5 escorts just hanging out.

having said the above. The escorts seem too easy too sink as well. They travel at convoy speed and are basically part of the convoy on the same course and bearing. What about having them do AOD behavior of keeping their speed up and doubling back/ making 360's or searching the flanks of the convoy. This make life more difficult for the uboat.

One last thing...after my first encounter with the convoy...I sunk three ships in the middle of the convoy. I proceeded slow and deep (TWSS!) and got to a point where i thought the 3 plus escorts had lost me (about an hour and half later)....I go to periscope depth. I look around and see the 3 escorts hanging around.... but the convoy has been completely stopped and just hanging out at about 5000 meters away (don't think I sunk 'convoy' leader as I sunk ships in the middle). Was just taken a back a bit as the AI is still a bit disappointing... anyone see behavior like this?

[Dogfish40]

Yes,
I saw the same with the remaining merchants and tankers hanging. After about what seemed like an hour they finally started on their way. This was obviously not written in on purpose and should be fixed somehow if possible. The remaining ships would have either scattered and regrouped or at least kept going.
But they definitely stopped. Although this was a small convoy, I too am sure I didn't shoot the convoy leader, just for this very reason. I didn't want the convoy to stop and just stay there.
As I said though, they finally took off after quite some time.

[THE_MASK]

Fair enough , on a scale from 1 to 10 how hard is it to make the required tonnage in the campaign ? 10 being the hardest . I take it you are in the south western approaches objective .

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Dogfish40

I saw the same with the remaining merchants and tankers hanging. After about what seemed like an hour they finally started on their way. This was obviously not written in on purpose and should be fixed somehow if possible. The remaining ships would have either scattered and regrouped or at least kept going. But they definitely stopped.

I can confirm this in my gameplay too (Western Approaches, 1940, latest IRAI). The convoy ships just stop, or turn aimlessly at slow speed for some time, while all escorts are busy chasing my sub. After about one hour, everybody regroups and resumes course. A most unrealistic behavior of the AI, IMO.

[Sartoris]

This happens to me as well. I play with sober's list (though I have dropped some of the more cosmetic mods).

The escorts protecting the convoy all gather around me and try to follow me, even if I move away from the convoy. I remember going to periscope depth the other day and seeing eight or so escorts looking for me, but the convoy they were protecting was by that time so far away that it wasn't even visible on the horizon! That seems entirely unrealistic to me.

I seem to remember TDW saying that DDs stop searching once they get 30km away from their convoy, which strikes me as an odd choice of strategy, though I can't be sure...

[finchOU]

Hour 12 now (real time) of trying to to evade 6 destroyers. 70% Hull Integ...stay at about 110 meters. Installed DC water disturbances after hour 6.... seems to work a little bit. But not enough to shake 6 DDs. The Convoy is completely out of Hydrophone range (about 4 hours ago)...yet pretty much every DD from the convoy is having what TDW calls a DC party...where a Leader DD (or three) just sit at a distance and coordinate the other ships to DC me. I'd have to say that a ship stopping (for 12 hours now) to be the party thrower...is a bit unrealistic. I like the fact that i'm having to wait it out i guess.... but it seems a little early in the war for this for my liking. I could see 2 maybe 3 DDs ..but not 6. I'll keep going till I run out of O2 or Battery if I have to.... my old tactics do little to shake these bastards . longest I've been out of ASDIC contact was about 10 minutes....with an average lost contact about 2 minutes. Changing course several times and keeping engines RPMs at 50 which yields about 1 knot. I do speed up after DC attack...but they seem to Zero in on me as soon as I go for it. I only stay fast for 30-35 seconds. so i'm wondering if the MOD is working.

I just want fresh air and sunshine! hehe

[V13dweller]

I have had many game breaking attacks like this, but their hydrophones are doing the impossible and facing straight down, and "Listening" to me when no noise is being made.

I even did this using the Goblin editor app, I was sitting at 200 meters deep, hanging there while the DD's are endlessly doing scripted circles around me, even once they had run out of ammunition (Each Depth charge racks contain 40 Depth charges each) And each DC thrower has about the same (? from my last look)

They continue to hang around, even when their are no more ships to call in, because they have no more ammunition.

[Sartoris]

Originally Posted by V13dweller

I have had many game breaking attacks like this, but their hydrophones are doing the impossible and facing straight down, and "Listening" to me when no noise is being made.

Agreed!
I'm starting to think the game or IRAI gives destroyers some kind of power that enables them to hear you even after they lose contact and you are at 150m and standing completely still. This is most apparent when I use the external cam during the night and see all the destroyers circling around me with their on-deck lights pointing at my PRECISE location (you can tell its precise because of the orange circle that represents your submarine on the surface). Nine ships all being completely certain where you are when they're spinning around, depth charging with no leader listening is just utterly absurd.

I know that assaulting a convoy is a suicidal mission, but dying after every attack is just not fun. I'm all for realism, but give us a break here.

[finchOU]

Early war ...it shouldn't be suicidal. Even mid war. The main threat to Uboats was aircraft...not Destroyers. Statistics tell us that much. Allied ASW technology was not good early in the war. ASDIC was new and somewhat accurate....but Depth charges couldn't go deeper than 100 meters (allies didn't think Uboats could go that deep) for a good portion of the earlier part of the war.

My Happy Times in June 1940 (less than a year of war) are not so Happy. haha.... it feels like late 1943 with a hunter killer group.

I realize we are in the early stages of breaking down the code of SH5.... so i'm patient and confident that one day we might have a pretty good sim. Kind of interesting to keep learning what are the limitations of the AI right now. Makes you wonder what they were working on with this sim before it was release..... oh yeeeeahhh!!?!!? it looks pretty!

[finchOU]

okay...managed to escape my hunters after 15 hours. I read up on IRAI to make sure I was doing everything I could to shake them.

What I learned: need to keep RPMS lower than 50.... i was targeting 50. Constantly changing headings seems to not allow ASDIC to home in on you as much (still hard to tell aspect to 6 dd's). When i ever I would get to a new heading and the rudder neutral...Pinging seem to zero in on me and they would reaquire my location ....where is if I reversed course and started changing heading...they would lose me again.

How I ended up evading was going to Periscope depth....engaging the slow moving DD at my stern with the stern tube....maybe 500 meters. Scored a hit.... immediately launched a decoy and proceeded back down to 110 meters (max i would go with 70% hull integrity).....all at 40 RPMs. They seemed to lose me after that. Maybe it was a function of sinking a higher rated escort who would locate me for the others....or maybe it was just luck.

Biggest lesson learned......don't engage a convoy when you have any hull damage....dugh! RPMs is critical ...say at 40 and below (about .4 knots). Sometimes a little chaos of a damaged Destroyer might allow you to slip away. Lastly ...I made the rookie mistake of thinking I could get repairs done at Breast ....when my base is still Wilhelmshaven.....this might be a long trip home for repairs...and no...not through the channel.