Made in America: The short list

Ducimus · 07-13-12, 05:15 PM

Quote:

(CNN) -- The slow death of American manufacturing and the trend toward outsourcing overseas has made it hard to find American-made goods -- but not impossible. A host of small businesses are still dedicated to manufacturing goods in America, and, thanks to a few diligent bloggers, they're easier than ever to find.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/13/living...html?hpt=hp_c2

vienna · 07-13-12, 06:29 PM

A big part of the problem is the people now running what's left of American business and those who came before them over the last 40 years really have little vested interest in keeping those businesses in the USA or maintaining US control over the companies. Succeed or fail, they always get an overly generous paycheck, bonus or severence. If a regular working man/woman went to his jog knowing he was going to get a very handsome paycheck whether or not he was actually productive, would he be motivated to really have any interest in the effect of his/her labors? And would they fear losing their jobs if they new they were going to get a very large severence package?...

It used to be companies were extensions of their founders or their descendants (Ford, Macy, etc.). There was a pride in the comapnies name and reputation, not only in the executive offices, but, also, in the working rank. Loyalty up and down the chain of command was a given. Sure, you might gripe about the foreman or the VP in charge, but the bottomline was the company took care of you and you took care of the company. Starting in about the mid 1970's, American businesses were rapidly losing the people who either started the companies or were descended from the founders. The cult of the MBA began and the hordes of business school graduates with dollar signs in their eyes began to take control of American companies. What was important was no longer how thw comapnies were perceived or what their responsibilities to the workers or the country were, it was more important to get that great quarterly bottom line so the MBAs could get their bonuses and raises. If that meant selling off the assets to foreign interests, laying off US workers and outsourcing their jobs, dismantling the core business structure, well so be it; as long as the bootom line looke d good and they got their bonuses and raises. And what if their actions resulted in failure? No problem; there was always that "Golden Parachute" assuring no matter how badly they screwed up, they were set for life and didn't need to stand in the unemployment line with those they had taken jobs away from or face the embarassment of having to ask for public aid. It is interesting to note, following the Savings & Loan collapse at the end of the Regan/Bush administration, the Clinton administration's Justice Department aggresively went after those responsible for the debacle. Now, after the mismanagement of the W. Bush administration nd the Great Recession, the Obama administration has noticably not gone after those responsible and not one single major CEO or executive has been brought to answer for their crimes. It makes you wonder who really runs this country and also is very telling of how we are in the state we find ourselves today...

[steps down off soap box...]

...

Stealhead · 07-13-12, 06:34 PM

It is all about pleasing the shareholders the better the CEO does at pleasing them the bigger his parachute which means hundreds or even thousands loose jobs when the company goes down or and they make more quick money closing things down and selling the machinery to another lower wage paying nation which means even more profits for the share holders.This has been they way of things since at least the late 60's both parties have been in charge off and on since then and nothing has changed.

I know a few people that worked for a large electrical and hand tool product company their factory was the most effective one in the entire company so the workers of course had no fears of job loss because they did good work.As a result they did not feel too concerned when they started setting up a shop in Mexico and in China they even had the best people go and help get the new factories running.After a few years of operation the Mexican and Chinese factories could not keep up with production and where not making good profit.The company decided that the best course of action was to close down the US factory and keep the crappier ones open (low pay = more profit) to maximize things they decided not to gradually shut down the US factory or give the workers any clue of future plans.They just gathered all the workers together one day and said "thanks for the good work folks thanks for helping set up the new factories you are all fired."

The name of the company is Ideal Industries.

Penguin · 07-14-12, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealhead

The name of the company is Ideal Industries.

sometimes life writes the best bittersweet and cynical jokes

Platapus · 07-14-12, 06:47 PM

How many of us have mutual funds that have companies that outsource? How many of those people get concerned when their stock value goes down?

Blood_splat · 07-14-12, 07:25 PM

Reminds me of political attack ads.

mookiemookie · 07-14-12, 11:16 PM

Well, you can pay $30 for a shirt made in America, or you can pay $10 for one made in India. You can have a workforce of 1,000,000 factory workers all making $10 an hour, or you can have 1,000,000 workers who engineered the item the factory workers are assembling and they get paid $25 an hour. A million people with $10 to spend are not going to make for as powerful of an economy as a million people with $25 to spend.

Manufacturing was doomed as soon as international shipping and communication became as cheap and efficient as it has become.

CaptainMattJ. · 07-15-12, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookiemookie

Well, you can pay $30 for a shirt made in America, or you can pay $10 for one made in India. You can have a workforce of 1,000,000 factory workers all making $10 an hour, or you can have 1,000,000 workers who engineered the item the factory workers are assembling and they get paid $25 an hour. A million people with $10 to spend are not going to make for as powerful of an economy as a million people with $25 to spend.

Manufacturing was doomed as soon as international shipping and communication became as cheap and efficient as it has become.

Why not pay the workers 25 dollars an hour. Then youll have two million people with 25 dollars to spend, instead of one million. Henry Ford had this crazy idea of paying his workforce enough money to buy the products he sold.

mookiemookie · 07-15-12, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainMattJ.

Why not pay the workers 25 dollars an hour. Then youll have two million people with 25 dollars to spend, instead of one million. Henry Ford had this crazy idea of paying his workforce enough money to buy the products he sold.

Because labor wages are an input to the final cost of your finished good. A company can sell a Chinese shirt made by workers making $1 an hour a heck of a lot cheaper than they can an American made one where they paid workers $10 or $25 an hour, ceteris paribus.

And we Americans have become very accustomed to cheap shirts.

Tchocky · 07-15-12, 09:08 AM

What Americans tend to make now are the machines that foriegn low-wage labourers use to make things Americans used to make.

I *think* that was English, not sure.

the_tyrant · 07-15-12, 09:32 AM

Made in the USA (or Canada, or the UK for this matter) is not competitive world wide.

Maybe Ducimus will buy something because it is made in America, but people like him accounts for only a small percentage of the American population, and the US accounts for only a small percentage of the global population.

To the rest of the world, why would they buy something that is more expensive because it is made in America?

Also, people usually say Made in America = better quality. Well thing is, there is no correlation between quality and the location where it is made. I have seen amazing quality on some things that are made in Japan or Germany. in this age of mass production, there isn't really anything stopping the goods made in China or Mexico from being bad quality really.

I just don't see a future where more things are being manufactured in the US. Hell, I don't even see a future where manufacturing is done by cheap labor in China or Mexico.

Hottentot · 07-15-12, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

What Americans tend to make now are the machines that foriegn low-wage labourers use to make things Americans used to make.

Spot on.

u crank · 07-15-12, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tchocky

What Americans tend to make now are the machines that foriegn low-wage labourers use to make things Americans used to make.

One has to wonder how long it will take before that comes full circle?

MH · 07-15-12, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_tyrant

Made in the USA (or Canada, or the UK for this matter) is not competitive world wide.

Maybe Ducimus will buy something because it is made in America, but people like him accounts for only a small percentage of the American population, and the US accounts for only a small percentage of the global population.
.

True...that's the reality but question is if this kind of economy is not causing circular reaction that actually turns against the very people who enjoy it in long run.
Regulated chinese economy may delay the equilibrium of wages and work condition for long time to come.

Stealhead · 07-15-12, 01:57 PM

Actually they are already building factories in places like Vietnam and Cambodia because there are enough Chinese workers wanting higher pay.

I agree that quality is relative just because something is made in the US or any other country does not mean that is the best quality product or the best priced product.That being said I do find generally speaking that products that are made in a 1st world country usually are better quality.

Why someone would be impressed that a German or Japanese product is of good quality is a bit beyond me both of these nations are known for having workers that take pride in making a good product Japan did not become known for this until after WWII first with very well made metal toys and later with complex machinery and electronics now only certain components are made in Japan.Same goes for Germany it has been known for quality manufacture for some time in fact this actually hurt them during WWII because they just could not pull them selves away from high quality complexity.

Wal Mart and over consumerism is what has done us in people want low cost over anything else and that is why most items are not made in the US or 1st world nations now our only major in demand comity are high cost items that require complex machinery and engineering to even produce the problem is that these types of items usually do not require very many workers to produce so less jobs you only need maybe 100-150 workers at a GE turbofan factory you might need 500 or more workers at a t-shirt factory.

07-13-12, 06:29 PM	#2
vienna Navy Seal Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Anywhere but the here & now... Posts: 7,711 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	A big part of the problem is the people now running what's left of American business and those who came before them over the last 40 years really have little vested interest in keeping those businesses in the USA or maintaining US control over the companies. Succeed or fail, they always get an overly generous paycheck, bonus or severence. If a regular working man/woman went to his jog knowing he was going to get a very handsome paycheck whether or not he was actually productive, would he be motivated to really have any interest in the effect of his/her labors? And would they fear losing their jobs if they new they were going to get a very large severence package?... It used to be companies were extensions of their founders or their descendants (Ford, Macy, etc.). There was a pride in the comapnies name and reputation, not only in the executive offices, but, also, in the working rank. Loyalty up and down the chain of command was a given. Sure, you might gripe about the foreman or the VP in charge, but the bottomline was the company took care of you and you took care of the company. Starting in about the mid 1970's, American businesses were rapidly losing the people who either started the companies or were descended from the founders. The cult of the MBA began and the hordes of business school graduates with dollar signs in their eyes began to take control of American companies. What was important was no longer how thw comapnies were perceived or what their responsibilities to the workers or the country were, it was more important to get that great quarterly bottom line so the MBAs could get their bonuses and raises. If that meant selling off the assets to foreign interests, laying off US workers and outsourcing their jobs, dismantling the core business structure, well so be it; as long as the bootom line looke d good and they got their bonuses and raises. And what if their actions resulted in failure? No problem; there was always that "Golden Parachute" assuring no matter how badly they screwed up, they were set for life and didn't need to stand in the unemployment line with those they had taken jobs away from or face the embarassment of having to ask for public aid. It is interesting to note, following the Savings & Loan collapse at the end of the Regan/Bush administration, the Clinton administration's Justice Department aggresively went after those responsible for the debacle. Now, after the mismanagement of the W. Bush administration nd the Great Recession, the Obama administration has noticably not gone after those responsible and not one single major CEO or executive has been brought to answer for their crimes. It makes you wonder who really runs this country and also is very telling of how we are in the state we find ourselves today... [steps down off soap box...] ... __________________ __________________________________________________ __

07-13-12, 06:34 PM	#3
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	It is all about pleasing the shareholders the better the CEO does at pleasing them the bigger his parachute which means hundreds or even thousands loose jobs when the company goes down or and they make more quick money closing things down and selling the machinery to another lower wage paying nation which means even more profits for the share holders.This has been they way of things since at least the late 60's both parties have been in charge off and on since then and nothing has changed. I know a few people that worked for a large electrical and hand tool product company their factory was the most effective one in the entire company so the workers of course had no fears of job loss because they did good work.As a result they did not feel too concerned when they started setting up a shop in Mexico and in China they even had the best people go and help get the new factories running.After a few years of operation the Mexican and Chinese factories could not keep up with production and where not making good profit.The company decided that the best course of action was to close down the US factory and keep the crappier ones open (low pay = more profit) to maximize things they decided not to gradually shut down the US factory or give the workers any clue of future plans.They just gathered all the workers together one day and said "thanks for the good work folks thanks for helping set up the new factories you are all fired." The name of the company is Ideal Industries. Last edited by Stealhead; 07-13-12 at 06:51 PM.

07-14-12, 06:47 PM	#5
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,360 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	How many of us have mutual funds that have companies that outsource? How many of those people get concerned when their stock value goes down? __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

07-14-12, 11:16 PM	#7
mookiemookie Navy Seal Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 9,404 Downloads: 105 Uploads: 1	Well, you can pay $30 for a shirt made in America, or you can pay $10 for one made in India. You can have a workforce of 1,000,000 factory workers all making $10 an hour, or you can have 1,000,000 workers who engineered the item the factory workers are assembling and they get paid $25 an hour. A million people with $10 to spend are not going to make for as powerful of an economy as a million people with $25 to spend. Manufacturing was doomed as soon as international shipping and communication became as cheap and efficient as it has become. __________________ They don’t think it be like it is, but it do. Want more U-boat Kaleun portraits for your SH3 Commander Profiles? Download the SH3 Commander Portrait Pack here.

07-15-12, 09:08 AM	#10
Tchocky Navy Seal Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,874 Downloads: 6 Uploads: 0	What Americans tend to make now are the machines that foriegn low-wage labourers use to make things Americans used to make. I think that was English, not sure. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

07-14-12, 07:25 PM	#6
Blood_splat Samurai Navy Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Beneath the waves Posts: 568 Downloads: 20 Uploads: 0	Reminds me of political attack ads.

07-15-12, 09:32 AM	#11
the_tyrant Admiral Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 2,272 Downloads: 58 Uploads: 0	Made in the USA (or Canada, or the UK for this matter) is not competitive world wide. Maybe Ducimus will buy something because it is made in America, but people like him accounts for only a small percentage of the American population, and the US accounts for only a small percentage of the global population. To the rest of the world, why would they buy something that is more expensive because it is made in America? Also, people usually say Made in America = better quality. Well thing is, there is no correlation between quality and the location where it is made. I have seen amazing quality on some things that are made in Japan or Germany. in this age of mass production, there isn't really anything stopping the goods made in China or Mexico from being bad quality really. I just don't see a future where more things are being manufactured in the US. Hell, I don't even see a future where manufacturing is done by cheap labor in China or Mexico. __________________ My own open source project on Sourceforge OTP.net KGB grade encryption for the rest of us

07-15-12, 01:57 PM	#15
Stealhead Navy Seal Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 5,421 Downloads: 85 Uploads: 0	Actually they are already building factories in places like Vietnam and Cambodia because there are enough Chinese workers wanting higher pay. I agree that quality is relative just because something is made in the US or any other country does not mean that is the best quality product or the best priced product.That being said I do find generally speaking that products that are made in a 1st world country usually are better quality. Why someone would be impressed that a German or Japanese product is of good quality is a bit beyond me both of these nations are known for having workers that take pride in making a good product Japan did not become known for this until after WWII first with very well made metal toys and later with complex machinery and electronics now only certain components are made in Japan.Same goes for Germany it has been known for quality manufacture for some time in fact this actually hurt them during WWII because they just could not pull them selves away from high quality complexity. Wal Mart and over consumerism is what has done us in people want low cost over anything else and that is why most items are not made in the US or 1st world nations now our only major in demand comity are high cost items that require complex machinery and engineering to even produce the problem is that these types of items usually do not require very many workers to produce so less jobs you only need maybe 100-150 workers at a GE turbofan factory you might need 500 or more workers at a t-shirt factory.