U-Boat manual targeting

[Matt86]

I've got the hang of the fleet boat TDC so now Im trying out OM + OMEGU on manual.

I can handle the fast 90 ok but 'full manual' using the KUIB is just confusing - I've read both the manual targeting guide and the KUIB user guide but end up just feeling thick

Are there any other easy manual targeting techniques to ease my way in? Im thinking of Uboat versions of the fleet boat 'flash' cards?

Cheers

[Dignan]

I'm not sure about any "quick guides" for uboat targeting that exist, other than the Dick O'Kane/Fast 90 method which is always a sure bet.

Just keep in mind that it is very similar to fleet boat TDC except for two important differences.

1. There is no position keeper
2. The periscope is constantly updating your bearing and AOB (once you've set an AOB in the TDC)

So if you have an accurate speed and a good AOB set, just make sure you take one more accurate range reading before firing. Place the scope wire on the ship where you want to hit and fire.

[I'm goin' down]

It took me awhile but I figured out manual targeting using OM/OMEGU/Kiub. Once you figure it out, it is simplier than applying manaul targeting in PTO. But it takes awhile to get there. Here we go:

Here is the easiest ways to get started. Line up at 90 degrees to target's course. If the target is, say, at 70 degrees to your starboard (to your right) and is moving from right to left, its Aob is 20 degrees. (It is important that you understand this concept: bearing (70 degrees) + Aob (20 degrees) = 90 degree angle.) With the TDC light in the off position, set the Aob to 20 degree left (not right!), as the Aob from view from the target's bow is on the left side. Activate the TDC (i.e. turn on the light). Lock on the target if you want and the Aob dial will move as the target closes on a 90 degree Aob. Fire when ready (i.e. say, fire when the target is at a bearing of 10 degrees (bearing (10 degrees) + Aob (80 degrees = 90 degree angle)) to be consistent with the O'Kane method; however, since the TDC is tracking the target you are not confined to firiing at that bearing.

Here is the copy of one of my posts in the ATO forum that should help you understand the counter intutive Aob dial setting in ATO. This is where i made the conceptual breakthrough. Short version -I was setting the Aob in the exact opposite direction. You may need to think about this. Try to visualize it. This example is related to firing when the target's Aob is 90 degrees, as in an O'Kane attack or fast 90.

"The left side of the Aob dial on your U-Boat says, "Bug Links." Translated this means bow of the ship left. When a target is approaching the bow of you your ship from starboard (i.e. it is moving from right to left) [as in my example above], the Aob viewed from the target's bow is to its left (port). This means that the Aob dial on the UBoat, as viewed from the bow of the target, should be set to 90 degrees Bug Links (bow left.)

The right side of the Aob dial says, "Bug Recht." Translated this means bow of the ship right. When a target is approaching the bow of you your ship from the port (i.e. it is moving from left to right), the Aob viewed from the target's bow is to its right (starboard.) This means that the Aob dial on the UBoat, as viewed from the bow of the target, should be set to 90 degrees Bug Recht (bow right.)

For a captain such as myself who learned on an American sub this is counter intuitive. However, it now makes sense, plus it worked. I sank the submarine in the tutorial with four shots, all hits. The Aob was set at 90 degrees Bug Links (bow left) when the target crossed the wire at 10 degrees heading right to left at 7.5 kts.

The above coupled with the explanation you and Wilke provided (Wilcke sent me PMs) were correct and much appreciated. My problem was that I could not read German. I used an German to English dictionary translation to figure it out."

Bottom line, once you have the target's Aob, input it in the TDC with scope locked on the target. With the TDC activated the Aob dial will move in relation to movements of the scope. For an O'Kane shot, when the Aob is either 10 degrees or 350 degrees, depending on the target's heading, fire the torpedoes.

Kiub-- the "dial" used to calculate the target's range, speed and Aob. Kiub means Kreigsmarine Interface for U Boats. Read Kasmanovnew's tiutorial. It is somewhat difficult to follow, but if you practice, you will figure out how to use it. Now, get your ass back on the line and sink some ships.

[Matt86]

Thanks for the replies!
The Uboat system is certainly better for engaging multiple targets!

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

"The left side of the Aob dial on your U-Boat says, "Bug Links." Translated this means bow of the ship left. When a target is approaching the bow of you your ship from starboard (i.e. it is moving from right to left) [as in my example above], the Aob viewed from the target's bow is to its left (port). This means that the Aob dial on the UBoat, as viewed from the bow of the target, should be set to 90 degrees Bug Links (bow left.)

The right side of the Aob dial says, "Bug Recht." Translated this means bow of the ship right. When a target is approaching the bow of you your ship from the port (i.e. it is moving from left to right), the Aob viewed from the target's bow is to its right (starboard.) This means that the Aob dial on the UBoat, as viewed from the bow of the target, should be set to 90 degrees Bug Recht (bow right.)

Very helpful! Up till now I was really just guessing then checking the solution looked good to double check ...

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

Bottom line, once you have the target's Aob, input it in the TDC with scope locked on the target. With the TDC activated the Aob dial will move in relation to movements of the scope. For an O'Kane shot, when the Aob is either 10 degrees or 350 degrees, depending on the target's heading, fire the torpedoes.

Would I be right in saying no turning of the sub in the mean time? The way I see it this would screw up the AOB.

[sharkbit]

Originally Posted by Matt86

Would I be right in saying no turning of the sub in the mean time? The way I see it this would screw up the AOB.

You are correct.
Once you change your course, you need to update the AOB on your TDC on the German version(The fleet boat TDC will keep track of it).
Since now the target is at a different relative bearing and the AOB is tied to your scope, the AOB will change as well when you lock onto the target.

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by I'm goin' down

Here is the copy of one of my posts in the ATO forum that should help you understand the counter intutive Aob dial setting in ATO. This is where i made the conceptual breakthrough. Short version -I was setting the Aob in the exact opposite direction. You may need to think about this. Try to visualize it. This example is related to firing when the target's Aob is 90 degrees, as in an O'Kane attack or fast 90.

"The left side of the Aob dial on your U-Boat says, "Bug Links." Translated this means bow of the ship left. When a target is approaching the bow of you your ship from starboard (i.e. it is moving from right to left) [as in my example above], the Aob viewed from the target's bow is to its left (port). This means that the Aob dial on the UBoat, as viewed from the bow of the target, should be set to 90 degrees Bug Links (bow left.)

The right side of the Aob dial says, "Bug Recht." Translated this means bow of the ship right. When a target is approaching the bow of you your ship from the port (i.e. it is moving from left to right), the Aob viewed from the target's bow is to its right (starboard.) This means that the Aob dial on the UBoat, as viewed from the bow of the target, should be set to 90 degrees Bug Recht (bow right.)

Bottom line, once you have the target's Aob, input it in the TDC with scope locked on the target. With the TDC activated the Aob dial will move in relation to movements of the scope. For an O'Kane shot, when the Aob is either 10 degrees or 350 degrees, depending on the target's heading, fire the torpedoes.

Originally Posted by Matt86

Would I be right in saying no turning of the sub in the mean time? The way I see it this would screw up the AOB.

Originally Posted by sharkbit

You are correct. Once you change your course, you need to update the AOB on your TDC on the German version(The fleet boat TDC will keep track of it). Since now the target is at a different relative bearing and the AOB is tied to your scope, the AOB will change as well when you lock onto the target.

Let's think this through. Hypo: Assume the TDC is activated and accurately locked on the target. If the target changes course or speed, then the correction can be made by deactivating the TDC, entering the new speed or course, and reactivating the TDC. You might as well correct the range too, if you have time.

However, if only your U-Boat changes course, but the target's speed and course have not changed, logic tells me that the TDC will continue to track it if your periscope is locked on the target or the target is squarely in the periscope's view. The Aob should adjust automatically while the periscope follows it despite the fact that your U-Boat has changed or is in the process of changing course. So, at this time, with the qualifcatrions noted re the target changing course or speed, I disagree with sharkbit. Take a look at the KIUB tutorial by Karamaroznew as he probably mentions it. sharbit's post may (note, I use the word "may" intentionally) be inaccurate, because if the U-Boat turns (i.e. alters course) and has the target in its sites, the TDC is correcting (updating) the targets Aob while the U-Boat changes position. At this point the only variable of the attack equation that should be different is Range, and I do not normally adjust the Range setting as I assume the TDC is tracking it.

Interesting question. Let's see what other responders post. Meanwhile, I would test it out if I could only find a target of the Norther Slope (Norway.) If I am correct, I am ready to teach at the War College. If not, sharkbit is.

[sharkbit]

@ I'm goin' down:
I've been away from SH3 for about 6 months(been taking a break from SH and playing SH4 for the past couple of months exclusively) so I may be wrong with what I posted earlier but....

IIRC though, as your u-boat turns and the scope is locked, your actual AOB is not changing at that instant. The AOB remains the same no matter which way your sub is facing. But as your scope follows the target, the TDC is changing the AOB setting as long as the TDC is engaged and the scope is following your target.
Any change in your heading or the target heading means you need to update the data when the new course is settled on.

You may be correct though. Like I said, it has been a while since I've been terrorizing the North Atlantic. I been spoiled by the fleet boats in the Pacific. I am at work right now but I will check it out this afternoon when I get home.

[I'm goin' down]

Not sure what SH3 has to do with OM. It is SH4. What is IIRC? Is that an appreviation you invented? If the scope is locked and TDC is changing as the U-Boat changes course, why would you have to reenter the Aob when the U-Boat settles on the new course? The Aob would be set per the scope. Now if the target changes course or speed, deactivating the TDC and reentering course or speed is necessary so you can reactivate the TDC to track the target.

[Platapus]

[QUOTE= What is IIRC? Is that an appreviation you invented? [/QUOTE]


If I Recall (Remember) Correctly and no he did not make that up. It is not one of the more common initializations

[sharkbit]

I don't play OM in SH4 but I assume the TDC's work the same. After all, a U-boat is a U-boat, whether in SH3 or SH4.

I still haven't had a chance to check out what the operation of the TDC and the AOB when you change course. Maybe later today.

[I'm goin' down]

Originally Posted by sharkbit

I don't play OM in SH4 but I assume the TDC's work the same. After all, a U-boat is a U-boat, whether in SH3 or SH4.

I still haven't had a chance to check out what the operation of the TDC and the AOB when you change course. Maybe later today.

Please note that in the American boats you are not required to rest the TDC if the American boat changes course. You do need to reset the TDC if the target changes course or speed. If all TDC's operate the same...(you get my drift and can finish the thought.) Don't rush on my account. Take your time and let's get it right. The future of the War depends on it.

[sharkbit]

OM has only u-boats in it, correct?

I know the US and German TDC's are two very different units and you do not need to reset anything if your sub changes course with the US TDC.

It is unfortunate that SH4 does not model the full capabilities of the US TDC. From what I've read, the game only scratches the surface of what the US TDC is capable of.

Still hoping to do some testing later today or this evening as time permits.

[sharkbit]

Alrighty then, here is what I did to confirm:

I positioned my sub 90 degrees off the starboard side of a non-moving ship, bearing dead ahead. So-
Target Speed: 0
AOB: Stbd 90
Range: 1000 meters.
Bearing(relative): 000

I input the pertinent information into the TDC and engaged the TDC.

With the scope locked, I ordered a hard right rudder and came around until the ship was bearing 270 degrees relative.
When I was steadied on what would be a parallel course, the TDC read a 0 dgree AOB while in reality I still had a 90 degree starboard AOB(a little less actually due to my movement during the turn).
As I turned, the AOB dial spun around to the 0 degree AOB as the locked scope remained on the target.

So bottom line-with the German TDC, any change in your submarine's course or the target's course requires the TDC to be disengaged, the new information input in the TDC, and the TDC re-engaged.
The way the German TDC works is why the Fast-90 method works so well. Once you "calibrate" the scope to the 90 degree AOB, any way you move the scope will show what the AOB would be at any relative bearing, as long as you or the target does not change course.

Also with the German TDC, unlike the US TDC, the range needs to be constantly updated as you approach the target since there is no Position Keeper on the German TDC.

This check was done using SH3. I am assuming, since I have never tried out the u-boats in SH4, the u-boat TDC in SH4 is set up the same way as the german TDC in SH3. If someon could confirm that, it would be appreciated. If it does not work the same way as it does in SH3, well......
Never Mind.

[I'm goin' down]

this should be in the ATO forum, so I will request it.

[mcxbs]

mark