CAPT Holly Graf gets ‘honorable’ retirement

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Yep. You did read correctly. Captain Holly Graf, also nicknamed as "Horrible Holly" and "female Captain Bligh", gets 'honorable' retirement against recommendation of her board of inquiry. Here are few links on subject:

http://www.susankatzkeating.com/2012...-upgrades.html

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/0...rement-010612/

http://militarycorruption.com/hollygraf18.htm

http://www.stripes.com/navy-to-let-o...ement-1.165440

Holly who? Here is thread by Kaye T. Bai on SUBSIM on subject: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//sho...d.php?t=162805

EDIT: When digging for more information on Captain Holly Graf, I found interesting blog which I address in this post (Page 3 #41). I strongly recommend reading it as it gives interesting counter point to majority of other sources.

[Takeda Shingen]

The USN seems to handle it's trouble a lot like PSU.

[August]

Originally Posted by Takeda Shingen

The USN seems to handle it's trouble a lot like PSU.

I guess a lot like any large organization that doesn't want to be defined by it's renegades.

Wow, that "military corruption.com" site is crazy.

Interesting how the story played out over the years though.

[Takeda Shingen]

Originally Posted by August

I guess a lot like any large organization that doesn't want to be defined by it's renegades.

And yet, by handling them as they have both have created that which they feared. I would always have hoped that, should I ever be in their shoes, I would do the right thing right away. Having never been in the place to make that choice, I cannot say that I would.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

BTW what you think about this picture?
Picture is from MilitaryCorruption.com article found here. Couple of quotes.

It's been said a picture is worth a thousand words. We can only hope the one above is worth a court martial, even if it makes the Navy blanch to punish an incompetent and unstable "politically correct" poster girl for all the super feminists at the Pentagon and the U.S. Naval Academy.

"The McCAIN lines up next to us (the COWPENS) and then both ships went full throttle. The whole thing was crazy. Graf would go nuts if any of the OOD's came within a few miles of a contact, and now here she was ready to drag-race a destroyer.

"At one point, we nearly hit the McCAIN's fantail when the ships came within 300 feet of the other. I held my breath and prayed to God we wouldn't collide, because many sailors could have been killed and at least one Navy warship sunk at sea", a sailor told MilitaryCorruption.com

I would like to hear opinions of those who have served on navy (not banning others) of soundness of this kind of "drag-racing"?

[gi_dan2987]

I feel that the quality of people coming out of this modern society is rotten to begin with, and that people will take their immoral lusts into the military with them. After all, our military is staffed by the once civilians of this nation. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. This is how our total society is being utterly disintegrated from the inside out by those in control of the 4 hidden dynasties; Wealth, Religion, Politics, and Education. Through these 4 major dynasties our country is being broken down and re-molded into the country that those truly in power want us to be, whereby we're easily controlled and better positioned for the execution of their selfish plans.
Another example of the scourge of feminazism overtaking this land. Those with the cooch think they can do whatever they want and get away with it.

[Stealhead]

It is funny to me how an officer can do things worthy of a dishonorable discharge most times they get let off with out a hitch.There are tons of examples of officers having been court marshaled and found guilty yet someone stepping in to let them off the hook.Now for an enlisted person your screwed hard they love to make examples of enlisted men and women this was something that really disgusted me about the military while I was in.

I knew people in my old units that made "mistakes in judgment" things that should not have gotten them kicked out yet the JAG threw the book at them in many cases even when commanding officers did not wish for the person to punished in such a manner.It makes no sense to me you(as enlisted) will get your career ruined for minor things in the modern military that would have only had a short term negative effect in the old day and would have been removed from your records after good behavior.I know a retired Air Force E-9 served for 28 years from 1961-1981 this guy was one of the youngest E-9s in the Air Force in his day and was a Training Instructor at Lackland form 1964-1967 even though he had received an article 15 for getting drunk and wrecking all of the public areas of his dorm at Nellis AFB when he was an A2C.Today you would have a very good chance of getting kicked out for such a thing yet 40 years ago it had little bearing.In my day I knew an E-4 whose terrible infraction was getting drunk and getting into a fight with some Army private in which very minor injures where caused by both parties.The Air Force saw fit to give this E-4 a less than honorable discharge even though his commanding officer felt that an article 15 with loss of all rank was fair punishment and wanted the airman to stay in the Air Force.

Myself I had an LOR in tech school for being late for formation because I had to complete an assigned detail which failure to have completed would also have resulted in an LOR Which the NCO gladly reminded myself and my roommate who also received an LOR. This stuck with me until my second base where my commanding officer tossed it in the trash.

Flip the coin and officers can get away with damn near anything.

[Schroeder]

@Stealhead

I only understood 50% of your post. Not everyone here is trained in US military acronyms.

[Stealhead]

LOR Letter of Reprimand letter listing an infraction you have committed not worthy of punishment.They can be removed by commanding officers.

Article 15 is a form of non judicial punishment given by commanders for infractions not considered as requiring courts marshal.In most cases the offender
looses rank and may also get extra or be restricted to base rank is earned back.

JAG Judge Advocate General basically this is the judicial branch that represents the military DA of the military military judges are also part of JAG.District Attorney not sure what this equates to in Germany.

E-4 fourth enlisted rank in the US military

E-9 highest enlisted rank

NCO non commissioned officer an enlisted man.

Enlisted a person that serves as an enlisted man

Officer a person that is a commissioned officer by Congress and the President of the United States.

Dishonorable discharge very bad conduct equal to a criminal conviction most that receive this committed a a crime in the military and served military prison time.


Less than honorable discharge poor conduct but you can appeal them after 6 months and most will get it changed to honorable.

A2C Airman Second Class old Air Force rank an E-2 now just called Airman.

BTW what you think about this picture?....

Kraznyi, you ain't doing yourself any favours linking to those loonies.
The actual story speaks for itself, once you introduce those crazy rants from that site you actually start to make the officer look better.

[gi_dan2987]

Originally Posted by Stealhead

It is funny to me how an officer can do things worthy of a dishonorable discharge most times they get let off with out a hitch.There are tons of examples of officers having been court marshaled and found guilty yet someone stepping in to let them off the hook.Now for an enlisted person your screwed hard they love to make examples of enlisted men and women this was something that really disgusted me about the military while I was in.

I knew people in my old units that made "mistakes in judgment" things that should not have gotten them kicked out yet the JAG threw the book at them in many cases even when commanding officers did not wish for the person to punished in such a manner.It makes no sense to me you(as enlisted) will get your career ruined for minor things in the modern military that would have only had a short term negative effect in the old day and would have been removed from your records after good behavior.I know a retired Air Force E-9 served for 28 years from 1961-1981 this guy was one of the youngest E-9s in the Air Force in his day and was a Training Instructor at Lackland form 1964-1967 even though he had received an article 15 for getting drunk and wrecking all of the public areas of his dorm at Nellis AFB when he was an A2C.Today you would have a very good chance of getting kicked out for such a thing yet 40 years ago it had little bearing.In my day I knew an E-4 whose terrible infraction was getting drunk and getting into a fight with some Army private in which very minor injures where caused by both parties.The Air Force saw fit to give this E-4 a less than honorable discharge even though his commanding officer felt that an article 15 with loss of all rank was fair punishment and wanted the airman to stay in the Air Force.

Myself I had an LOR in tech school for being late for formation because I had to complete an assigned detail which failure to have completed would also have resulted in an LOR Which the NCO gladly reminded myself and my roommate who also received an LOR. This stuck with me until my second base where my commanding officer tossed it in the trash.

Flip the coin and officers can get away with damn near anything.

I was in the Army and I witnessed numerous occasions where officers would acquit themselves of charges worthy of court martial, and would turn around and promote themselves and give themselves medals. Usually some poor enlisted guy would take the fall and the punishment. There was an E7 that lost his rifle on a patrol in Iraq, got back to base, switched up the serial numbers with some private, and got the private in trouble for losing the weapon. My lieutenant lost his gas mask, and did the same thing to a specialist in my squad. After the tour they were all assigned bronze stars. For what? They rarely left the wire or took responsibility for their actions. People are selfish and self serving. The greatest example of this lies with the talking suits in washington.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Originally Posted by Tribesman

Kraznyi, you ain't doing yourself any favours linking to those loonies.

Do you mean that I'm looking loony too?

Originally Posted by Tribesman

The actual story speaks for itself,

I agree that articles' tone is quite harsh and many of their sources are anonymous which makes them not reliable as sole source. Thats reason why I have opted to quote other sources as well.

In case of that article I linked last (one containing picture of ships moving close of each other) I wanted to hear navy people/mariner opinion of that picture. I quoted their text to make it clear what picture is supposed to represent.

Originally Posted by Tribesman

once you introduce those crazy rants from that site you actually start to make the officer look better.

Could you explain how? Other sources still give quite similar picture of captain Graf.

Could you explain how?
Other sources still give quite similar picture of captain Graf.

It is in their explaination
Is it the old boys network, poofs in the pentagon, preference for officers over enlisted, dykes at sea, modern political correctness gone mad, simple nepotism, typical old school navy.....that site its claims its all of them ...so how does that work? Its like saying its a capitalist communist martian from venus who is a sunni jewish bhuddist atheist

[August]

Originally Posted by gi_dan2987

I was in the Army and I witnessed numerous occasions where officers would acquit themselves of charges worthy of court martial, and would turn around and promote themselves and give themselves medals. Usually some poor enlisted guy would take the fall and the punishment. There was an E7 that lost his rifle on a patrol in Iraq, got back to base, switched up the serial numbers with some private, and got the private in trouble for losing the weapon. My lieutenant lost his gas mask, and did the same thing to a specialist in my squad. After the tour they were all assigned bronze stars. For what? They rarely left the wire or took responsibility for their actions. People are selfish and self serving. The greatest example of this lies with the talking suits in washington.

You have evidence of these crimes and you didn't report it to the JAG? Why?