Marines urinating on Taliban corpses.

Fish · 01-12-12, 05:07 PM

This is asking for more Al Qaida volunteers.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/1...depicting.html

kraznyi_oktjabr · 01-12-12, 05:15 PM

Yeah. Due forum rules I can't use words which best represents this bunch of idiots.

EDIT: Just a side note... I really hope those "do as they do" commenters don't represent majority.

Dowly · 01-12-12, 05:27 PM

joea · 01-12-12, 05:38 PM

Sullying the name of the Corps, their species and offending the people they are supposed to "help".

Rockstar · 01-12-12, 05:58 PM

Happens during war. Some are successful in hiding the truth and atrocities others get caught. Of course the pious sitting behind their desks come out in droves shaking their heads in disgust.

Some like the Dutch still have their heads in the sand over thier own nations violent history.

Jop Hueting, perhaps the most famous Dutch soldier of the Indonesian war, who was decorated for the bravery he displayed in an airborne assault on Jakarta, has compared some of the massacres he witnessed to the My Lai incident during the Vietnam War. Mr Hueting, who was also in court as a possible witness for the defence, says the comparison between the Nazi SS and the Dutch forces is appropriate, because 'it is a metaphor for unbelievably violent behaviour by our forces'.

Other nations get involved with torture and brutality too.

The Petrozavodsk resident Novikov, who testified before the Investigation Committee witnessed how, in Camp No. 2 the Finns selected 30 inmates, allegedly war prisoners. They drove them to Loe Tolstoy Street and subjected them there to excruciating torture. They burned the heels of the "prisoners" with a red-hot iron, beat them with rubber clubs and then shot 15 of them. The remaining 15 persons were sent back to Camp No. 2 after 25 days.

-

U.S. Marines in Afganistan, most likely engaged the enemy on in a battle. The enemy was overcome by superior forces and killed. The dead know one thing and that is they're dead. Marines know something too about nature and that is, when ya gotta go ya gotta go.

kraznyi_oktjabr · 01-12-12, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

The Petrozavodsk resident Novikov, who testified before the Investigation Committee witnessed how, in Camp No. 2 the Finns selected 30 inmates, allegedly war prisoners. They drove them to Loe Tolstoy Street and subjected them there to excruciating torture. They burned the heels of the "prisoners" with a red-hot iron, beat them with rubber clubs and then shot 15 of them. The remaining 15 persons were sent back to Camp No. 2 after 25 days.

Source?

CCIP · 01-12-12, 06:14 PM

I don't think this is by any means 'natural' or worthy of excusing, but it is a good reminder that war is ugly business, even in the age of social media and our apparent civility. It'll never fail to bring out the worst in some people, because the very nature of war is hatred. While I agree that it's shameful and unbecoming, I think it's also rather facetious of the USMC to try and distance itself from it in terms of values and expectations. The very business of that and every other fighting force is to kill effectively, expediently and ruthlessly. Everything after that is secondary, and one would be deluded to think that most soldiers can do that sort of thing in cold blood and without genuine hatred and downright craziness boiling over every once in a while. What's more, most military services in fact encourage and train people in channeling that sort of hatred and craziness into 'productive' directions - but the fact is, once it gets to a certain point, you're not even really thinking.

So, it's very much the reality of the whole business, and it'll always be this way. This sort of exorcism of "bad apples" that we get in media every once in a while is no more than a deflection of attention from how ugly the war in general is.

Dowly · 01-12-12, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraznyi_oktjabr

Source?

If I'm not completely mistaken it's from the Extraordinary State Commission of
Soviet Union, released in 1944, before the war's end.

That would be the same people who tried to blame the Katyn massacre on the
germans, when in fact the poles had been shot by Soviet troops.

So, yeah, nice try.

TarJak · 01-12-12, 06:31 PM

Rule #1 when committing a war attrocity: Don't record it in anyway or leave any witnesses to it.

Idiots is the right term to describe these Jarheads.

Ducimus · 01-12-12, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockstar

Happens during war. Some are successful in hiding the truth and atrocities others get caught. Of course the pious sitting behind their desks come out in droves shaking their heads in disgust.

This.

Personally, I think its all to easy to cast judgement when your not walking through the same dangers and daily BS you'd have to deal with being a combat area. The big kicker is something that most people who haven't walked a similar walk don't think about. Coping and the environment.

By environment, i don't mean "Go green, save the tree", i mean the job, the people around you, the daily hazards you face. The harsher it is, the harsher your character can become, because not everyone deals with things the same way. Some things can effect a person more severe then others.

Ill bet almost anything, that there's a good number of troops that
- probably don't remember how old they are or when their birthday was, or even holidays like xmas.
- don't remember what the sound of a loved ones voice is
- probably lives day by day, with home nothing but a distant memory, and their current situation just "how it is, and how it is always going to be".

At some point, you lose a bit of your .... civility? Im not sure what the word is, but at some point, you just stop giving a damn, because the current nightmare, will never end.

Ill further wager that when some of them get back to the states, they'll think their dreaming, be in a state of total disbeleif that "it" is finally over, and that when they wake up in the morning, it'll be on a cot in a tent or bunker somewhere, with being back in the states, a wild dream, a fantasy impossible to realize.

edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarJak

Rule #1 when committing a war attrocity: Don't record it in anyway or leave any witnesses to it.

Idiots is the right term to describe these Jarheads.

Also this. There's an old expression that's been around, probably since vietnam.

"What happens in the field, STAYS in the field." Also expressed as, "What goes TDY, stays TDY".

Platapus · 01-12-12, 06:57 PM

Well if I know Marines like I think I do, I imagine there will be some private "counseling" by some NCOs. The Marines have a way of "self policing" when it comes to their public image and discipline.

I would not banter the term "war crimes" although technically it can be considered one. It was simply a breaking of the UCMJ and demonstrated a lack of professionalism. Let the Corps deal with it like any other infringement.

Yes, this will have some non-zero effect on the baddies, but it won't be the turning point of either side.

As a professional military member myself, I am appalled and disturbed at such conduct. But in the military faeces eventuates. The military, and especially the Corps know how to handle this.

I had the pleasure (if that is truly the right word) of working with Master Gunnery Sergeant Lopez. That was one of the most squared away Marines I ever worked with and that is saying something.

I could just imagine what MGYSGT Lopez would have to "say" to these individuals.

.

I was subjected to one of his "friendly" chats. (gulp!) He was merciful and I survived.

Herr-Berbunch · 01-12-12, 07:07 PM

OK, so these things happen. Just don't film it!!!

Mobile phones in theatre are seemingly one of the biggest causes of US mil bad publicity. If you want your phone in theatre to keep in touch with loved ones back home, fine, just think before using it for anything else!

nikimcbee · 01-12-12, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herr-Berbunch

OK, so these things happen. Just don't film it!!!

Mobile phones in theatre are seemingly one of the biggest causes of US mil bad publicity. If you want your phone in theatre to keep in touch with loved ones back home, fine, just think before using it for anything else!

You'd think they'd have stricter rules regarding personal phones with cameras in the field.

MH · 01-12-12, 07:21 PM

Disgraceful and stupid with much more publicity than its worth.
I'm sure its not typical US armed force behavior but it will be turned to satch by some .....some will party over this being "horrified".

August · 01-12-12, 07:25 PM

Such things have happened in every war that man has ever fought. The difference now is that it's likely to be video recorded.

01-12-12, 05:15 PM	#2
kraznyi_oktjabr Sea Lord Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Republiken Finland Posts: 1,803 Downloads: 8 Uploads: 0	Yeah. Due forum rules I can't use words which best represents this bunch of idiots. EDIT: Just a side note... I really hope those "do as they do" commenters don't represent majority. __________________ You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic. - Dr. House Last edited by kraznyi_oktjabr; 01-12-12 at 05:28 PM.

01-12-12, 06:14 PM	#7
CCIP Navy Seal Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Waterloo, Canada Posts: 8,700 Downloads: 29 Uploads: 2	I don't think this is by any means 'natural' or worthy of excusing, but it is a good reminder that war is ugly business, even in the age of social media and our apparent civility. It'll never fail to bring out the worst in some people, because the very nature of war is hatred. While I agree that it's shameful and unbecoming, I think it's also rather facetious of the USMC to try and distance itself from it in terms of values and expectations. The very business of that and every other fighting force is to kill effectively, expediently and ruthlessly. Everything after that is secondary, and one would be deluded to think that most soldiers can do that sort of thing in cold blood and without genuine hatred and downright craziness boiling over every once in a while. What's more, most military services in fact encourage and train people in channeling that sort of hatred and craziness into 'productive' directions - but the fact is, once it gets to a certain point, you're not even really thinking. So, it's very much the reality of the whole business, and it'll always be this way. This sort of exorcism of "bad apples" that we get in media every once in a while is no more than a deflection of attention from how ugly the war in general is. __________________ There are only forty people in the world and five of them are hamburgers. -Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart)

01-12-12, 06:57 PM	#11
Platapus Fleet Admiral Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 19,361 Downloads: 63 Uploads: 0	Well if I know Marines like I think I do, I imagine there will be some private "counseling" by some NCOs. The Marines have a way of "self policing" when it comes to their public image and discipline. I would not banter the term "war crimes" although technically it can be considered one. It was simply a breaking of the UCMJ and demonstrated a lack of professionalism. Let the Corps deal with it like any other infringement. Yes, this will have some non-zero effect on the baddies, but it won't be the turning point of either side. As a professional military member myself, I am appalled and disturbed at such conduct. But in the military faeces eventuates. The military, and especially the Corps know how to handle this. I had the pleasure (if that is truly the right word) of working with Master Gunnery Sergeant Lopez. That was one of the most squared away Marines I ever worked with and that is saying something. I could just imagine what MGYSGT Lopez would have to "say" to these individuals. . I was subjected to one of his "friendly" chats. (gulp!) He was merciful and I survived. __________________ abusus non tollit usum - A right should NOT be withheld from people on the basis that some tend to abuse that right.

01-12-12, 07:07 PM	#12
Herr-Berbunch Kaiser Bill's batman Join Date: May 2010 Location: AN72 Posts: 13,203 Downloads: 76 Uploads: 0	OK, so these things happen. Just don't film it!!! Mobile phones in theatre are seemingly one of the biggest causes of US mil bad publicity. If you want your phone in theatre to keep in touch with loved ones back home, fine, just think before using it for anything else! __________________

01-12-12, 07:25 PM	#15
August Wayfaring Stranger Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 23,197 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Such things have happened in every war that man has ever fought. The difference now is that it's likely to be video recorded. __________________ Flanked by life and the funeral pyre. Putting on a show for you to see.

01-12-12, 05:07 PM	#1
Fish Eternal Patrol Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,923 Downloads: 0 Uploads: 0	Marines urinating on Taliban corpses. This is asking for more Al Qaida volunteers. http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/01/1...depicting.html

01-12-12, 05:27 PM	#3
Dowly Lucky Jack Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Finland Posts: 25,052 Downloads: 32 Uploads: 0

01-12-12, 05:38 PM	#4
joea Silent Hunter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: At periscope depth in Lake Geneva Posts: 3,512 Downloads: 25 Uploads: 0	Sullying the name of the Corps, their species and offending the people they are supposed to "help".

01-12-12, 05:58 PM	#5
Rockstar In the Brig Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Zendia Bar & Grill Posts: 12,614 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	Happens during war. Some are successful in hiding the truth and atrocities others get caught. Of course the pious sitting behind their desks come out in droves shaking their heads in disgust. Some like the Dutch still have their heads in the sand over thier own nations violent history. Jop Hueting, perhaps the most famous Dutch soldier of the Indonesian war, who was decorated for the bravery he displayed in an airborne assault on Jakarta, has compared some of the massacres he witnessed to the My Lai incident during the Vietnam War. Mr Hueting, who was also in court as a possible witness for the defence, says the comparison between the Nazi SS and the Dutch forces is appropriate, because 'it is a metaphor for unbelievably violent behaviour by our forces'. Other nations get involved with torture and brutality too. The Petrozavodsk resident Novikov, who testified before the Investigation Committee witnessed how, in Camp No. 2 the Finns selected 30 inmates, allegedly war prisoners. They drove them to Loe Tolstoy Street and subjected them there to excruciating torture. They burned the heels of the "prisoners" with a red-hot iron, beat them with rubber clubs and then shot 15 of them. The remaining 15 persons were sent back to Camp No. 2 after 25 days. - U.S. Marines in Afganistan, most likely engaged the enemy on in a battle. The enemy was overcome by superior forces and killed. The dead know one thing and that is they're dead. Marines know something too about nature and that is, when ya gotta go ya gotta go.

01-12-12, 06:31 PM	#9
TarJak Fleet Admiral Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,052 Downloads: 150 Uploads: 8	Rule #1 when committing a war attrocity: Don't record it in anyway or leave any witnesses to it. Idiots is the right term to describe these Jarheads.

01-12-12, 07:21 PM	#14
MH Ocean Warrior Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3,184 Downloads: 248 Uploads: 0	Disgraceful and stupid with much more publicity than its worth. I'm sure its not typical US armed force behavior but it will be turned to satch by some .....some will party over this being "horrified".