France recognises Armenian genocide.

_dgn_ · 12-22-11, 03:39 PM

Quote:

The French National Assembly has formally recognised as genocide the slaughter of more than a million Armenians living in the Ottoman empire between 1915 and 1917

In fact, the French Assembly voted a bill criminalizing denial of Armenian Genocide : now, one year of imprisonment and 45.000 Euros of fine for any public negation of a genocide.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/102803.stm

soopaman2 · 12-22-11, 03:43 PM

So when will the Turks acknowledge it...

I think that is the most important part.

They can get the hell out of Cypress while they are at it.

Osmium Steele · 12-22-11, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soopaman2

So when will the Turks acknowledge it...

I think that is the most important part.

The Turks are furious and considering punitive actions against France,

so I'd say it'll be a cold day in Hades.

_dgn_ · 12-22-11, 03:49 PM

Just a small problem : Turkey doesn't admit having exterminated the Armenians (nor to have annexed half of the island of Cyprus ...).

soopaman2 · 12-22-11, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Osmium Steele

The Turks are furious and considering punitive actions against France,

so I'd say it'll be a cold day in Hades.

Of course they are.

France has its friends thought. More than the Turks I bet.

_dgn_ · 12-22-11, 04:00 PM

Now, French (or German or Italian ...) laws must be compatible with European laws. It's the case this new bill.

Turkey must change his legislation if this country wants to belong to the European Union.

For example : currently in Turkey, people are condemned if they use the word "Genocide" when speaking about the killing of Armenians ...

I don't think that France recalled his Ambassador because of this Turkish law (or others concerning the Kurds).

Skybird · 12-22-11, 05:02 PM

The senate still needs to approve it.

Turkey still has its article 301 of the penal code in place. Although cosmetically changed in 2008, it still allows to be used as a sanctionising tool against criticising Turkey in a way seen as offensive. And therein lies the problem. The criticised can all to easily claim to feel offended.

Turkey has threatened with consequnces, which could reach into the economic field. And when they start to not buy Airbus planes but Boeings, then Germany will start to dive down onto the French politically incorrect racist Turkey-haters (death to them all! Death to France! Death to America!). Same with other economic branches, and the EU.

That Sarkozy has timed and done this to appeal to the half a millionturks in France to vote for him, is not helpful.

But in principle, by content I agree with the French laws, since it is about genocide in general and not just about the Turkish genocide.

Germany has an according law that puts denial of the Nazi's holocaust under penalty. It is more specific a law, the French one is more general.

It must be made certain that fact-oriented discussion of historical events still is possible without needing to fear penalty when touching upon politically incorrect issues for the purpose of weighing facts and possible facts. Thus, courts will find it difficult in many cases to differ between discussion in the spirit of a responsible mind, and denial of genocide in the spirit of propaganda. The freedom for disucssion and the denial of propaganda are in a fragile balance. Both are separated by a very thin red line.

P.S. One should mention that by what I read not even a tenth of the chamber was present when it decided the vote. So it seems that to most French politicians the issue is not that important . Which Turkey of course can take as an offence in itself.

Conclusion: that the vote will be rogered in the senate and will become valid law, is not yet decided and so the bullying posture of Ankara can still have an effect to prevent it. One needs to wait and see.

Turkey has, earlier this year, dismantled a monument in an Armenian city calling for Turkish-Armenian reconciliation, and while paying lip confessions to tackle a "difficult shared past in open discussion" Turkey nevertheless has accumulated a long list of efforts to prevent right this.

12-22-11, 03:43 PM	#2
soopaman2 Der Alte Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 3,316 Downloads: 61 Uploads: 0	So when will the Turks acknowledge it... I think that is the most important part. They can get the hell out of Cypress while they are at it. __________________ If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons. -Winston Churchill- The most fascinating man in the world.

12-22-11, 05:02 PM	#7
Skybird Soaring Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: the mental asylum named Germany Posts: 42,605 Downloads: 10 Uploads: 0	The senate still needs to approve it. Turkey still has its article 301 of the penal code in place. Although cosmetically changed in 2008, it still allows to be used as a sanctionising tool against criticising Turkey in a way seen as offensive. And therein lies the problem. The criticised can all to easily claim to feel offended. Turkey has threatened with consequnces, which could reach into the economic field. And when they start to not buy Airbus planes but Boeings, then Germany will start to dive down onto the French politically incorrect racist Turkey-haters (death to them all! Death to France! Death to America!). Same with other economic branches, and the EU. That Sarkozy has timed and done this to appeal to the half a millionturks in France to vote for him, is not helpful. But in principle, by content I agree with the French laws, since it is about genocide in general and not just about the Turkish genocide. Germany has an according law that puts denial of the Nazi's holocaust under penalty. It is more specific a law, the French one is more general. It must be made certain that fact-oriented discussion of historical events still is possible without needing to fear penalty when touching upon politically incorrect issues for the purpose of weighing facts and possible facts. Thus, courts will find it difficult in many cases to differ between discussion in the spirit of a responsible mind, and denial of genocide in the spirit of propaganda. The freedom for disucssion and the denial of propaganda are in a fragile balance. Both are separated by a very thin red line. P.S. One should mention that by what I read not even a tenth of the chamber was present when it decided the vote. So it seems that to most French politicians the issue is not that important . Which Turkey of course can take as an offence in itself. Conclusion: that the vote will be rogered in the senate and will become valid law, is not yet decided and so the bullying posture of Ankara can still have an effect to prevent it. One needs to wait and see. Turkey has, earlier this year, dismantled a monument in an Armenian city calling for Turkish-Armenian reconciliation, and while paying lip confessions to tackle a "difficult shared past in open discussion" Turkey nevertheless has accumulated a long list of efforts to prevent right this. __________________ If you feel nuts, consult an expert. Last edited by Skybird; 12-22-11 at 05:21 PM.

12-22-11, 03:49 PM	#4
_dgn_ Machinist's Mate Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: France Posts: 122 Downloads: 331 Uploads: 0	Just a small problem : Turkey doesn't admit having exterminated the Armenians (nor to have annexed half of the island of Cyprus ...).

12-22-11, 04:00 PM	#6
_dgn_ Machinist's Mate Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: France Posts: 122 Downloads: 331 Uploads: 0	Now, French (or German or Italian ...) laws must be compatible with European laws. It's the case this new bill. Turkey must change his legislation if this country wants to belong to the European Union. For example : currently in Turkey, people are condemned if they use the word "Genocide" when speaking about the killing of Armenians ... I don't think that France recalled his Ambassador because of this Turkish law (or others concerning the Kurds).